Is Oktoberfest in Trouble, as RiverParks Makes Drastic Changes

[AquaMan]

Seems like you have a really good grasp of the event, financials, and other details. What are the fixed costs to run the event?  Seems like they were doing middling profit at $1.1 to !.2 Mil total revenue reflected on financials from '06 or '07 through '11.  Suddenly they raked in over $300K with $1.5 mil in one year.

Seems like you are a little defensive regarding RPA and this event.  For disclosure sake, are you now an RPA board member or helping put this together or simply taking the defense due to your involvement with Mayfest?  Not trying to pick a fight, simply asking for full disclosure sake as you seem a little defensive on RPA's behalf. 

I too am curious. Rent and beer can be fixed costs or variable costs depending on the arrangement. If its a percentage lease then its technically a fixed cost that varies with sales and may not be easily predicted. Do they or do they not pay for leasing the facilities? That would have an impact on profitability.

[carltonplace]

It would seem our city leaders could direct TPD to limit cooperation with a low-accountability agency bent on the destruction of our tourism economy, but apparently the lure of overtime trumps that.

De-funding ABLE should be a chamber priority.

I think lots of people would agree with you.

[Oil Capital]

My understanding from talking to someone involved with another festival is they believe the lines will move faster because filling 16oz & 1L cups goes a lot faster than filling two 64 oz pitchers.  I also understand the law is two drinks, but it doesn't limit the size.

That's some pretty silly reasoning.  It only works if you make the assumption that you will be replacing each sold pitcher with one and only one 16 oz or 1L cup.  (I guess, technically, the line might move faster but it will be an equivalent amount (or more) longer as well.)

[AquaMan]

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/riverparks-eliminates-oktoberfest-committees-will-/nZFKS/

My two cents. . .

After working the board for several festivals across the state, and helping to develop a couple right here in Tulsa, I can tell you that when you break the organization, for whatever reason, the festival is over.  It takes far more than a small group meeting once a month to pull off a festival of this magnitude and make it profitable.

PR, sponsorship, and volunteer recruitment & management are 99% of the battle.  To bring this all together by October, they should have most of the larger sponsorships sold by NOW!  Through this press, RiverParks may lose much of the festival's momentum, and it will take significant additional investment to gain a portion of it back.  I wish them the best, but it's going to be an uphill climb.  They will need a passionate and dedicated staff willing to take this on as more than a diversion.  

All of that aside, it seems that the fiefdom known as ABLE is getting more bold.

I am in agreement with you here (cats are kissing dogs as we write). This is not really about beer and pitchers. Those decisions are defensible and responsible.

Organization and volunteer participation are key for non profit festivals. They seem to have irritated Hohulski and some other board people and judging by the TW comments they've alienated a lot of long term volunteers. They also disbanded the previous volunteer organization a few years ago that helped put on events which rankled some people. Much of this comes from consultant recommendations. Please note, tenants don't last long over there. OF and the rowing crew are the only two over 3 years. Festivals come and go. They prefer to deal with corporates, fellow government entities and big name donors.

I doubt ABLE is the impetus for these moves. This is about control, image and risk aversion which are all principal elements of running an authority.
They're doing what they think they are supposed to do.

[sgrizzle]

Seems like you have a really good grasp of the event, financials, and other details. What are the fixed costs to run the event?  Seems like they were doing middling profit at $1.1 to !.2 Mil total revenue reflected on financials from '06 or '07 through '11.  Suddenly they raked in over $300K with $1.5 mil in one year.

Seems like you are a little defensive regarding RPA and this event.  For disclosure sake, are you now an RPA board member or helping put this together or simply taking the defense due to your involvement with Mayfest?  Not trying to pick a fight, simply asking for full disclosure sake as you seem a little defensive on RPA's behalf. 

I know Tonja, but have nothing to do with Oktoberfest. I don't know Riverparks financials, but I do know enough about many of the parties involved to surmise what is going on.

[Red Arrow]

They're doing what they think they are supposed to do.

They probably are doing what they are supposed to do.  Unfortunately, it may be totally unrelated to a successful event.

A picher of the good stuff was already pretty expensive, $19 or $20 I recall.  So a stein with roughly half the volume should be $10 or no more than $12.  If they want to charge $15 or more they are asking for trouble.

I've never been to OF since I would need to drive home.  Those prices are enough to keep me away regardless of driving or not.

[Gaspar]

I am in agreement with you here (cats are kissing dogs as we write). This is not really about beer and pitchers. Those decisions are defensible and responsible.

Organization and volunteer participation are key for non profit festivals. They seem to have irritated Hohulski and some other board people and judging by the TW comments they've alienated a lot of long term volunteers. They also disbanded the previous volunteer organization a few years ago that helped put on events which rankled some people. Much of this comes from consultant recommendations. Please note, tenants don't last long over there. OF and the rowing crew are the only two over 3 years. Festivals come and go. They prefer to deal with corporates, fellow government entities and big name donors.

I doubt ABLE is the impetus for these moves. This is about control, image and risk aversion which are all principal elements of running an authority.
They're doing what they think they are supposed to do.

There are always power struggles in these things.  Every board I've been involved with fell into the 70/30 rule.  70% of the people involved are just there to "be involved", and 30% actually do the work.  

There are two situations that cause these things to fall apart.  Either someone in the 70% mounts a challenge and changes the rules to make their mark (pissing off those who actually do the work), or those that do the work get tired of carrying water for an increasing number of "VIP" slackers.

We've actually told groups that they need to get smaller to be more profitable.  If something used to work in the past, and is failing now, look at what was changed and change it back!  New ideas are not always good ones.

[sgrizzle]

I am in agreement with you here (cats are kissing dogs as we write). This is not really about beer and pitchers. Those decisions are defensible and responsible.

Organization and volunteer participation are key for non profit festivals. They seem to have irritated Hohulski and some other board people and judging by the TW comments they've alienated a lot of long term volunteers. They also disbanded the previous volunteer organization a few years ago that helped put on events which rankled some people. Much of this comes from consultant recommendations. Please note, tenants don't last long over there. OF and the rowing crew are the only two over 3 years. Festivals come and go. They prefer to deal with corporates, fellow government entities and big name donors.

I doubt ABLE is the impetus for these moves. This is about control, image and risk aversion which are all principal elements of running an authority.
They're doing what they think they are supposed to do.

They alienated a lot of long term volunteers when they said volunteers weren't allowed to drink.

[AquaMan]

There are always power struggles in these things.  Every board I've been involved with fell into the 70/30 rule.  70% of the people involved are just there to "be involved", and 30% actually do the work.  

There are two situations that cause these things to fall apart.  Either someone in the 70% mounts a challenge and changes the rules to make their mark (pissing off those who actually do the work), or those that do the work get tired of carrying water for an increasing number of "VIP" slackers.

We've actually told groups that they need to get smaller to be more profitable.  If something used to work in the past, and is failing now, look at what was changed and change it back!  New ideas are not always good ones.

Good insights. I actually appeared before one of these OF committees with a proposal. I saw that 70/30 in action. In the end it was one very powerful person who held sway and for all the wrong reasons. The others just knelt down. Speaking up would have meant defending their position and backing it up with action. My assumptions of demand for my feature were proven correct and I made some money. But had they not covered for another feature I would have made a lot of money.

Understand this, OF generates lots of money and at that time there was very little accountability. That affected visible profitability. I hope its changed in that respec

[AquaMan]

They alienated a lot of long term volunteers when they said volunteers weren't allowed to drink.

And carry guns, get freebies from vendors and generally act very VIP. There are always some like that though.

[AquaMan]

They probably are doing what they are supposed to do.  Unfortunately, it may be totally unrelated to a successful event.

What they Think they are supposed to do. That's where the rub is.

Successful events, operated by others are what they are supposed to do. That's why they don't operate the restaurant. Their mission is to increase the activity and improvement of the river area for all the taxpayers. The people's assets are supposed to be safeguarded and increased in value and utility. Unfortunately,authorities like the now revitalized Economic Development Authority who suddenly sees the value of not fighting land sale and development within the Brady and its resulting explosion of lofts and hotels, has been the norm rather than the exception imo.

[rebound]

The people's assets are supposed to be safeguarded and increased in value and utility. Unfortunately,authorities like the now revitalized Economic Development Authority who suddenly sees the value of not fighting land sale and development within the Brady and its resulting explosion of lofts and hotels, has been the norm rather than the exception imo.

Are you say new lofts and hotels in the Brady District is a good or bad thing?  I can't tell if you think the EDA has changed for the better or worse.

[AquaMan]

Are you say new lofts and hotels in the Brady District is a good or bad thing?  I can't tell if you think the EDA has changed for the better or worse.

Sorry, that was a wordy, poorly constructed sentence. Surprised RA didn't call me on that.

I think its a great thing. Too long in coming. The EDA spokesman was quoted in the newspaper recently when the new lofts by the stadium were announced, that they had changed their thinking. Sure, now that the ball is rolling.

[DTowner]

It is very unclear to me under what authority RPA is operating in running a festival like OF.  Is putting on cultural heritage festivals really how RPA should be allocating its (presumably) limited resources?  This story that OF organizers asked RPA to take it over when they lost money in 2010 doesn't make sense to me – and I assume there is a lot of backstory to which I am not privy.  Does that mean RPA covered the loss?  If so, where did the money come from to do so?  Does RPA assume the risk of any future losses?  What about profit, where does the money go?

My firm quit attending Corporate Night a long time ago when it was wall-to-wall drunkenness.  I have only attended OF sporadically since – mainly because I often have other things going on and dealing with parking/shuttle bus hassles, waiting in long lines to overpay for a limited selection of good beer, and seeing grownups do the "chicken dance" for the umpteenth time doesn't do it for me.

I'm glad OF has been such a success and I hope it continues.  However, I question whether it can flourish while being run by a public body like RPA.

[Red Arrow]

Sorry, that was a wordy, poorly constructed sentence. Surprised RA didn't call me on that.

I generally move on from "a wordy, poorly constructed sentence", especially at work where I don't have time to spend deciphering it.  

Using a wrong word that sounds the same (there, their....) or mistakes such as were/we're will usually catch my attention.  Sometimes the post makes sense if read "aloud" even if it is total garbage as written.  Obvious typos and local slang don't bother me.  That little poem about spell checker should be the TNF theme.

Edit:
your/you're  (also "yore", but no one around here uses that word)

If an Engineer (me) can find your grammar mistakes, you need help.