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Nope, no-one is laughing at us, we are not in any way the subject of ridicule.

Started by custosnox, September 04, 2013, 11:04:04 PM

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custosnox

Pretty bad when stuff like this goes national. Sadly, my sis-in-law ended up pulling her son out of the same school because they kept complaining about him having long hair.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/04/tulsa-school-sends-girl-home-because-dreadlocks-and-afros-are-too-distracting/

TheArtist

 So are you saying we look bad because something so silly made the news here?  Or you saying we look bad because apparently there are parents who don't understand or wish to obey the rules of the schools their kids go to and end up hurting their kids in the process? I saw kids get sent home at my school in Owasso for disobeying the uniform/dress/hair codes and I suspect all schools have those codes to some degree or another. If you don't like the rules at your particular childs school, petition to have them changed, but not sure what message you are sending your child when you say it's ok for them to break those rules,,, especially when it's about something so minor.  Doesn't look like the parent was trying to get the rules changed, the gist of the story seemed to be, we did this and now our feelings are hurt and we don't like it that our feelings are hurt and it's their fault because they don't "like" what we did. It's not a matter of "liking" or not, the rules say...   Again, seems like a silly story on a minor topic and perhaps embarrassing in that respect.
"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h

custosnox

First, the point is that almost every time we make national news, it en seems to be over something like this. Second, public schools have no business making rules that affect a child's appearance outside of the class. This is  something that has been upheld by the court. Furthermore, this is common for the school. And I can speak from experience that the only way you get schools like this to change is by violating the rule and then fighting any punishment.

Sent from my galaxy, far far away, with tapatalk

BKDotCom

Saying this was national news is a bit of a stretch.

QuoteAbout Raw Story

Raw Story is a progressive news site that focuses on stories often ignored in the mainstream media.

(ie, a blog)

Conan71

Quote from: custosnox on September 05, 2013, 10:10:45 AM
First, the point is that almost every time we make national news, it en seems to be over something like this. Second, public schools have no business making rules that affect a child's appearance outside of the class. This is  something that has been upheld by the court. Furthermore, this is common for the school. And I can speak from experience that the only way you get schools like this to change is by violating the rule and then fighting any punishment.

Sent from my galaxy, far far away, with tapatalk

We also make the news for our ridiculous tornados ;)

You are correct, schools may not have business making rules that affect a child's appearance outside of class.  However, the rules they have regarding classroom appearance may well impact a child's appearance outside class.  You'd have an uphill battle trying to prove a rule was written to govern a child's behavior or appearance outside class.  Why waste the time taking it to court instead of just complying in the first place?

The part which did throw me though is I've never thought of an afro as being disruptive nor anything special.  That was actually a common style when I was in elementary school in the 1970's.  The black classmates I did have as well as our music teacher and one of the math teachers all had afros.  I've always assumed that was a perfectly acceptable ethnic hair style.
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

JCnOwasso

So, because someone gets sent home from a charter school, which you have to apply to and be accepted to, with the rules clearly being stated, this puts us in a bad light?  Not sure I follow you.  This isnt a freedom of expression thing, it isn't a racial thing, this is a "you didn't follow the rules" thing. 

I am reminded of the episode of "Good Luck Charlie" when Bob dropped off Charlie at her school.  Bob was wearing a robe and he was against the policy.  He then studied the policy and wore a kimono and rubbed it in the directors face.  The next day he was going to wear a kilt, but was informed by his wife that he was banned from the school.

In summation, just follow the damn rules.
 


custosnox

Quote from: Conan71 on September 05, 2013, 10:47:58 AM
We also make the news for our ridiculous tornados ;)

You are correct, schools may not have business making rules that affect a child's appearance outside of class.  However, the rules they have regarding classroom appearance may well impact a child's appearance outside class.  You'd have an uphill battle trying to prove a rule was written to govern a child's behavior or appearance outside class.  Why waste the time taking it to court instead of just complying in the first place?

The part which did throw me though is I've never thought of an afro as being disruptive nor anything special.  That was actually a common style when I was in elementary school in the 1970's.  The black classmates I did have as well as our music teacher and one of the math teachers all had afros.  I've always assumed that was a perfectly acceptable ethnic hair style.

I said almost. I know we have some things that come out that isn't because of something stupid, but overwhelmingly we hit the national scene in a way that has the rest of the country just shaking their head at us.

Quote from: JCnOwasso on September 05, 2013, 11:10:35 AM


In summation, just follow the damn rules.
Keep your head down, don't stand out, conform, conform, conform. Yeah, if we did that we wouldn't be anywhere near the country we are today (good or bad). When something is wrong, those who just abide by it and continue on are just as guilty as those who bring about whatever is wrong. It is everyone's moral duty that when they see something wrong with society to work towards righting that wrong.

Quote"hairstyles such as dreadlocks, afros, mohawks, and other faddish styles are unacceptable."

it also bothers me that two of the three hairstyles that they specifically mention are norms within the black community. I think even the mohawks are more prevalent within the black community than others. Do you think it would be okay for a school to make a rule for every child to have their hair cut in a specific way? Beyond that, this school has been known to harass parents and students about any hairstyle they don't like, and are very arbitrary. As I pointed out in the beginning, by SIL had to remove her son because of being harassed over his long hair. As far as the process of getting into the school, it is still a public school, and as a parent of a child that went through such a process, you don't think about things like are you going to get harassed over a hairstyle that is culturally acceptable almost everywhere (read as a normal hairstyle).

Conan71

Quote from: custosnox on September 05, 2013, 12:46:11 PM
I said almost. I know we have some things that come out that isn't because of something stupid, but overwhelmingly we hit the national scene in a way that has the rest of the country just shaking their head at us.
Keep your head down, don't stand out, conform, conform, conform. Yeah, if we did that we wouldn't be anywhere near the country we are today (good or bad). When something is wrong, those who just abide by it and continue on are just as guilty as those who bring about whatever is wrong. It is everyone's moral duty that when they see something wrong with society to work towards righting that wrong.

it also bothers me that two of the three hairstyles that they specifically mention are norms within the black community. I think even the mohawks are more prevalent within the black community than others. Do you think it would be okay for a school to make a rule for every child to have their hair cut in a specific way? Beyond that, this school has been known to harass parents and students about any hairstyle they don't like, and are very arbitrary. As I pointed out in the beginning, by SIL had to remove her son because of being harassed over his long hair. As far as the process of getting into the school, it is still a public school, and as a parent of a child that went through such a process, you don't think about things like are you going to get harassed over a hairstyle that is culturally acceptable almost everywhere (read as a normal hairstyle).

Far as I remember, there was always a dress and hair code throughout my time in public and private schools.  For boys, hair was to be above the collar.  When I went to Cascia Hall the dress code was dress trousers, button-up shirt, neck tie, and blue blazer with Cascia Hall patch sewn to the breast pocket of the blazer.  Yes, that is a "conforming" attire.  Parents who pay the tuition for their kids to go there aren't paying for their child to stand out in appearance, the point is to become an academic stand-out.  

As JCnOwasso correctly points out, you have to apply to a charter school.  I would assume at some point in the application process, the school spells out what appropriate appearance and behavior are.  That's what their guidelines are.  Why apply, get accepted, then try to force a change in the rules because one or two children and their parents can't or won't comply with the pre-determined conditions of enrollment that the rest of the rest of the parents and children are complying with?

If a family wants a more free-spirited approach, they are welcome to home-school or send them to a place more accepting of free-form appearance like Undercroft Montessori.  If they don't have the time or money to do either one of those options, then deal with what the rules are.

Which do you think is more important in terms of a child's long-term success as they mature and become an adult?

Freedom of expression or learning to follow directions and rules?
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

Oil Capital

Quote from: custosnox on September 05, 2013, 12:46:11 PM

it also bothers me that two of the three hairstyles that they specifically mention are norms within the black community. I think even the mohawks are more prevalent within the black community than others. Do you think it would be okay for a school to make a rule for every child to have their hair cut in a specific way? Beyond that, this school has been known to harass parents and students about any hairstyle they don't like, and are very arbitrary. As I pointed out in the beginning, by SIL had to remove her son because of being harassed over his long hair. As far as the process of getting into the school, it is still a public school, and as a parent of a child that went through such a process, you don't think about things like are you going to get harassed over a hairstyle that is culturally acceptable almost everywhere (read as a normal hairstyle).

Would it bother you less if you knew that all six of the school's board members are members of the black community?  Or that all four of the school's administrators (including its founder, executive director and namesake, Deborah Brown) are members of the black community?   Something tells me there might be a little more to this story than what was told by Raw Story.
 

Gaspar

LOL!

It is and has always been popular to push the bounds of societal norms in the name of individuality or creativity.  There is nothing wrong with it, but how you choose to do it says a lot about your intellect.  

The simplest method is through personal artifactics related to appearance like hairstyle, cloths, makeup, jewelry, tattoos or other adornment.  These outward expressions require little or no intellectual capital, and are designed to garner desired attention, but not necessarily respect, admiration, or acceptance.

Other individuals will differentiate themselves through the cultivation of unique skills, knowledge or physical abilities.  These individuals seek individuality through the recognition of their value to others and society in general.  The simple attention of others is not their primary goal, they seek individuality beyond basic surface characteristics, and recognize the same in others.

It's important for kids (and parents) to understand the difference, but unfortunately few teach it anymore, and the Miley Cyrus's of the world are testimony to that.

If a school has a published dress code and a student or parent knowingly and willingly violates that code, the only purpose for doing so is for desired attention.  We should commend this parent because he has achieved his goal.  Unfortunately he has done this at a cost to his child.  Parent of the year award candidate.
When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.

swake

Isn't this the school with the recent illegal lease at the Jazz Hall of Fame? There always seems to be some drama with this charter.

JCnOwasso

Quote from: custosnox on September 05, 2013, 12:46:11 PM
Keep your head down, don't stand out, conform, conform, conform. Yeah, if we did that we wouldn't be anywhere near the country we are today (good or bad). When something is wrong, those who just abide by it and continue on are just as guilty as those who bring about whatever is wrong. It is everyone's moral duty that when they see something wrong with society to work towards righting that wrong.

Let me further your statement... "Keep your head down, don't stand out, do your school work, form your personality, express it in your free time, have your crazy hair in the summertime, graduate because you spent more time on your schoolwork, become the uber spirit you had been working on".

There is nothing wrong here.  You are making a story out of something that is not.  School is about learning.  removing the barriers to learning is what they are trying to do.  Distracting items (Hair style included) are barriers to learning.
 

JCnOwasso

for the record, a child of a friend of mine was sent home from a charter school because she has a little bit of blue or pink hair.  Not the whole thing, just a little bit.  It didn't make the news, noone got arseache over the issue.
 

swake

Quote from: JCnOwasso on September 05, 2013, 03:38:43 PM
for the record, a child of a friend of mine was sent home from a charter school because she has a little bit of blue or pink hair.  Not the whole thing, just a little bit.  It didn't make the news, noone got arseache over the issue.

My daughter the rebel has an illegal purple streak in her hair going to Jenks High School. She hasn't been sent home *yet*.