Passenger Rail Set To Connect OKC, Tulsa

[AquaMan]

Too much "1984"ish for me.  Even though I am not doing anything wrong, it's not really anyone's business where I am going or what I am doing and how fast I may have gone for a short period of time.  I also don't want 3rd parties putting anything on my vehicle.

I can relate. Part of my 60's generation legacy is a mistrust of big brother. However, several strong arguments persuaded me. It only measures whether I exceed 80 mph, regularly make panic stops, and tracks mileage and frequency. I can visit the website and see my driving habits quantified. My rates are not increased based on those criteria, but may decrease up to 15% for positive results. Lastly, my car can be tracked down if stolen or buried in a snow bank. Otherwise I am led to believe that they have no interest in particular destinations, only the raw data. If they wanted to snoop on me they could anyway.

I believe this is going to be the norm. It gives the insurance company real results to judge my insurability and I can contest them if I feel it necessary. I see this as not much different than employers doing pre-employment checks. Then those that don't observe good driving habits can pay rates reflecting their real risk.

[Red Arrow]

My rates are not increased based on those criteria, but may decrease up to 15% for positive results.

That's just marketing speak for you will pay 15% more if you don't have "positive results".  That's OK if it works for you.

I understand your other points though.

[Weatherdemon]

My Infinity gets 27 mph on the highway, I use 91 octane currently at $2.98 a gallon, the turnpike is 88 miles and outside of construction I drive 83 MPH on it. That's a shade over an hour for $9, plus toll, which I have no idea of the cost because of my Pikepass that I use basically daily.

91 with ethanol is 2.98. Real 91 gas is around 3.39 right now.
Regardless, from Owasso, it's about $40 round trip to OKC in gas for me + the $8 in tolls.

I guess I understand the train ride more about the ride right now than convenience during the pilot.
I hope it gets to a Tulsa to OKC route. I would do that for Thunder games for sure.

[RecycleMichael]

91 with ethanol is 2.98. Real 91 gas is around 3.39 right now.
Regardless, from Owasso, it's about $40 round trip to OKC in gas for me + the $8 in tolls.

I guess I understand the train ride more about the ride right now than convenience during the pilot.
I hope it gets to a Tulsa to OKC route. I would do that for Thunder games for sure.

I go to OKC often and hate the drive. My costs with tolls averages around $40 to $50.

I am trying to do the February 9th day. Who wants to ride with me?

It is a Sunday and the train leaves Sapulpa at 8:00 am.

When I arrive in OKC I plan to take the free shuttle to the National Cowboy Museum. It is a beautiful building that I could spend hours in.

http://nationalcowboymuseum.org/

When I arrive at the museum the admission is $12.50 for adults, but I have a free ticket. I will do their Sunday brunch buffet for $11.00 It sounds great.
Dining on Persimmon Hill's

Specialty Chili

Field Greens w/Mandarin Oranges, Craisens; Almonds, Creamy Waldorf Salad, Broccoli Salad, Holiday Pasta Salad, Winter Slaw, Pistachio Salad,

Tender Roast Beef/Smashed Yukon Gold Potatoes, Herb Roasted Pork, Roasted Turkey/Turkey Gravy,

Squash Casserole, Chili Corn Custard/Chipotle Sweet Potatoes, Mixed Steamed Vegetables, Christmas Chicken Fettuccini

Pineapple Spoon Bread, Yeast Rolls

Bread Pudding, Peach Cobbler, Cherry Coconut Christmas Cake, Black Forest Cake, Red Velvet Cake Roll, Maple Cupcakes, Cranberry Walnut Tarts


It will take a few hours to see it all. They have entire rooms showing depictions of parts of the west including a New Mexico room, a Grand Canyon room, a Utah room, a Wyoming suite and a room dedicated to the ocean views of Carmel, California. The 46 foot by 18 foot paintings of the banquet room are stunning. The entire building and grounds have very impressive sculptures.

After about four hours at the museum, the shuttle will take me back to the train station for the return ride home. It is planned to arrive around 6:30 pm.

The cost for everything will be around $150. I will love the ride and enjoy talking, wandering around, even using free wireless or taking pictures of the scenery very much. It should be a great day.  

I am going to buy my tickets next Thursday. Come with me.

[RDW]

No need for anonymity, my name is Rick Westcott and I serve as Chairman of the Tulsa City Council's Passenger Rail Committee.

Maybe I can help the discussion a little bit.  There are several points to discuss, including this special, demonstration project, the merits of a passenger rail connection from Tulsa to OKC, and high speed vs conventional rail service.  Far too much for this post.  

But, please understand, this is only a demonstration project, a weekend-excursion type offering.  It isn't intended to be what might actually be offered, someday.

There are track access issues that prevent this excursion train from actually running from downtown to downtown.  Those issues would be resolved if true downtown to downtown service is offered.

The private company who is offering this excursion train, Iowa Pacific Holdings, has made an offer to ODOT to run eight round trips per day between Tulsa and OKC.  The run-time would be a little over two hours each way, with stops to serve those folks who live in/near Sapulpa, Bristow, Stroud and Chandler.  Cost would be in the neighborhood of $60 per round trip.

They also make their offer with NO requirement of a taxpayer subsidy.  For contrast, you and I pay Amtrak about $4 million per year to run the Heartland Flyer from OKC to Fort Worth, and only one round trip per day.

The state owns the line from Sapulpa to OKC, and Burlington, Northern owns the line from Sapulpa to downtown Tulsa.  Thus, the access issue into downtown.  However, BN has indicated a willingness to discuss leasing access.  It just hasnt been worked out for the limited, excursion train.  

Here's the big sticking point.  ODOT is trying to sell the line as fast as they can.  We will only be able to have passenger  rail service if they are prevented from selling it, only if the state still owns it.  We are trying to prevent them selling it, but they are a powerful force.

I hope this helps the discussion.  Please let me know if you have questions.

RDW

[Red Arrow]

The private company who is offering this excursion train, Iowa Pacific Holdings, has made an offer to ODOT to run eight round trips per day between Tulsa and OKC.  The run-time would be a little over two hours each way, with stops to serve those folks who live in/near Sapulpa, Bristow, Stroud and Chandler.  Cost would be in the neighborhood of $60 per round trip.

How many cars and passengers would they need to make that work?

[RecycleMichael]

Thank you Rick for your efforts to bring passenger train service to the Tulsa area.

I trust this service is just a starting point and I will support your efforts any way I can.

[RDW]

Red Arrow,  I really don't know.  I've read Iowa Pacific Holding's offer to ODOT, but I don't have a copy of it. I'll try to get an answer for you.

I've read several reports on existing passenger service from all over the country and it sounds kind of counter-intuitive, but the greater the frequency of trains, the greater the number of passengers.  In other words, if there are 3, 4 or 5 round trips per day, there are more riders than there would be if there is only one or two round trips per day.  I first thought the additional trains would cannibalize from the first train or two, but it doesn't work out that way.

But, I'll try to get an answer to your question  It may take a day or two.

RDW

[sauerkraut]

For people like me who really have no need to go to OKC  any Tulsa-OKC rail won't be used. I could use rail systems that  go up to Omaha and down to Dallas. That would save me alot of driving. Doing the Tulsa to  OKC to Dallas dance is more hassle and time wasted than it's worth. A direct link from Tulsa to D/FW is what I'd like to see happen.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

For people like me who really have no need to go to OKC  any Tulsa-OKC rail won't be used. I could use rail systems that  go up to Omaha and down to Dallas. That would save me alot of driving. Doing the Tulsa to  OKC to Dallas dance is more hassle and time wasted than it's worth. A direct link from Tulsa to D/FW is what I'd like to see happen.

The peanut gallery has spoken. So negative nancy, do you earn your living kissing "Fallins butt"?

[Hoss]

The peanut gallery has spoken. So negative nancy, do you earn your living kissing "Fallins butt"?

Like I said, his former occupation was likely an Oklahoma State Trooper...

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Like I said, his former occupation was likely an Oklahoma State Trooper...

That explains a lot.    He must taste what she eats before she does with as far as his heads buried.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

On topic, it's a good idea for the pilot program. I'm just a little skeptical of the numbers on paper.  I think it's a good idea to try it on a limited scale to get a true feeling of the potential use. If it works, and an arrangement with BNSF to get to downtown Tulsa, and an arrangement tonlink to Amtrak it can be a very good thing.

[Weatherdemon]

Thanks for the info Rick!

I like what you're saying and hope it works out! 

[Red Arrow]

I could use rail systems that  go up to Omaha and down to Dallas. That would save me alot of driving.

It looks like BNSF has tracks to those places. All you need to do is convince them that passenger service to those place would make them money.

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/where-can-i-ship/