Passenger Rail Set To Connect OKC, Tulsa

[heironymouspasparagus]

Some new info.  

In other words ODOT has been misrepresenting the facts to the public for 15 years.  We could have service into downtown Tulsa today.

Wonder why ODOT would do that?

I know you have to be asking that as a rhetorical question - you did not become Chairman by being naive.  I will answer it for you for, though - Because they are ODOT, as corrupt an organization as the county commissioners are statewide - as sadly, so many areas of state government are.  


Now, onto the fun stuff - Rick, I LOVE what you guys are doing there.  I have "known" for years that there is pent up demand for passenger rail from Tulsa to OKC area, but now you are showing it with hard numbers in the real world!!  Congratulations,  thanks, and please keep up the good work!!!  I am very excited and hope it becomes a regular service.

We have been traveling from OKC to Ft Worth fairly regularly for several years as recreational trip.  I have even managed to make 2 business trips to DFW area riding the train.  It is NOT the same as driving at all, so does require adaptation of one's travel expectations.  And when you approach it from a "blank slate" standpoint, it is extremely viable for business and pleasure.  Kind of like trying to plan a dog sled trip to Nome, AK....but easier.

We (SWMBO and I) are looking forward very excitedly to the time when this becomes a daily service.  For the ones who have limited vision of what this can be, the first, very simplistic trip we plan is to get on the train in Tulsa area - wherever that may end up - ride to OKC and spend the afternoon/evening doing stuff in the area.  There is a very large selection of world class museums in the area...just like here in T-town.  Spend the evening at the Courtyard by Marriott that is literally across the street from the train station for the Heartland Flyer.  Go to Ft Worth - on a train.  Rent a car.  Walk around the Stockyards area a while,then go to Cattleman's restaurant for an early dinner - should be around 3:00 pm by then.  Spend the night - gotta be a good hotel downtown - and the next day, go to the Christmas Store - Decorator's Warehouse - in Arlington - SWMBO will insist.  (There is an area in the back of the store for the guys to go sit and watch sports while the women spend all the money.)

Probably go over to Dallas just to eat at Papadeaux...and then do whatever else strikes our fancy...maybe football game, baseball game, or theater or ??  A good curling match would be nice, if we could find it!!  

From Ft Worth, one could get on an Amtrak if so inclined and go just about wherever.  We would most likely be limited to a 5 day weekend, so get back on the train to OKC.  Another night at Courtyard, then spend the next day in OKC again to catch whatever we missed the first day.  Back to T that afternoon/evening.  Good trip!!

Hope this works out.

[dsjeffries]

Some new info.  

In 1998, BNSF owned the line from downtown Tulsa to OKC.  They sold Sapulpa -OKC to the state.  Since then, ODOT has been telling the public that, since BNSF retained ownership from Sapulpa - downtown Tulsa, we would have to negotiate with BNSF for access from Sapulpa - downtown and they could refuse access if they want.  According to ODOT, that was the hold up to passenger rail.

I recently read the 1998 purchase contract between BNSF and ODOT.  It specifically says that BNSF grants access for 99 years to ODOT or any of ODOT's licensees to run up to 4 round trips per day on its line from Sapulpa - downtown Tulsa, and sets out the pricing structure.

In other words ODOT has been misrepresenting the facts to the public for 15 years.  We could have service into downtown Tulsa today.

Wonder why ODOT would do that?

WOW. Just wow. This, plus a comment on Blake Ewing's Facebook, offer a new perspective on this issue.

From Blake's Facebook. Bold emphasis mine:

Kathy Moheb - As a city councilor representing your district, it is in no way 'conflict of interest' to want it to thrive. If you were mayor and you demanded the city build a zillion dollar low water dam in front of your riverfront property, that would be conflict of interest.
If you were mayor or governor and sitting on the Turnpike Authority while obstructing passenger rail service between Tulsa and OKC, that would be conflict of interest.

Thank you, RDW, for your hard work.

[Conan71]

WOW. Just wow. This, plus a comment on Blake Ewing's Facebook, offer a new perspective on this issue.

From Blake's Facebook. Bold emphasis mine:
Thank you, RDW, for your hard work.

Keep in mind everyone that ODOT and the OTA are separate entities, though it would not surprise me for ODOT to run interference for OTA on this issue.

[carltonplace]

So...now that we know that the train can come all of the way into Tulsa what would it take to alter the terminus from Sapulpa and where would you put it.

West Bank at 21st seems like a logical spot with lots of available parking.

[TheArtist]

We got that expensive new bridge there across the river cause we told the Feds that it was to be multimodal including rail for future transit.  Perhaps we should use it for that and begin preparing the Fin-Tube site for parking and TOD development like we planned in the new Comprehensive Plan?

[BKDotCom]

We got that expensive new bridge there across the river cause we told the Feds that it was to be multimodal including rail for future transit.  Perhaps we should use it for that and begin preparing the Fin-Tube site for parking and TOD development like we planned in the new Comprehensive Plan?

I thought all that planning was just for fun.
A thought experiment.

[carltonplace]

We got that expensive new bridge there across the river cause we told the Feds that it was to be multimodal including rail for future transit.  Perhaps we should use it for that and begin preparing the Fin-Tube site for parking and TOD development like we planned in the new Comprehensive Plan?

It doesn't have any tracks on it yet...the trains are ready to start excursioning already.

[LeGenDz]

Well the thought was fun while it lasted..

ODOT Plans To Sell Railway Between OKC, Tulsa

OKLAHOMA CITY - The Department of Transportation's plan to sell its railway line between Tulsa and OKC could mean the end of a passenger train between the two cities.
In February, the Eastern Flyer will service three passenger excursion trips from just outside Tulsa to Midwest City. The trip will allow passengers to enjoy dinner, visit downtown OKC, and take in a Thunder game.

12/20/2013 Related Story: Passenger Rail Set To Connect OKC, Tulsa

Almost all of the 900 tickets, priced at $70, have sold so far. Many thought the Eastern Flyer may bring the start of a permanent train between the two cities.

Now, the ODOT, which owns the line, plans to sell it to the highest bidder. Opening bids will start at $9.1 million with a January 30 deadline.

"It's just a mistake," said OKC City Councilman Pete White.

Councilman White believes OKC should have been told about the sale sooner.

"It doesn't appear to be very open, because we didn't know about it," White said.

White says he'll look into trying to delay the bid deadline to give OKC a better shot at figuring out a way to keep the line open to passengers.

But White admits, "It's very late in the game."

ODOT says it may decide to keep the line and allow companies to lease the railway. The move may open the door to a permanent passenger railway solution between Tulsa and OKC.

However, ODOT tells News 9 when it purchased the line in 1998, it was always their intention to maintain the railway and eventually sell it back to a private company.

It says it decided to sell after hearing from freight railway companies wanting to buy the rail line.

http://www.newson6.com/story/24449258/odot-plans-to-sell-railway-between-okc-tulsa

[AquaMan]

This seems an obvious time for them to take bids on the tracks. Once established that there is demand for passenger ridership they can expect higher bids. Those who want to run a passenger line are interested and those freight lines that would like the tracks for themselves now can bid against each other. Real short term thinking by ODOT. No big surprise there.

[patric]

Well the thought was fun while it lasted..

http://www.newson6.com/story/24449258/odot-plans-to-sell-railway-between-okc-tulsa

ODOT covering their tracks?   

[davideinstein]

So...now that we know that the train can come all of the way into Tulsa what would it take to alter the terminus from Sapulpa and where would you put it.

West Bank at 21st seems like a logical spot with lots of available parking.

New station right in the middle of downtown.

[TheArtist]

The new bridge, I thought, was sold to the Feds as part of a future transit corridor.  We were even told that unless we got this bridge funded that there would be almost no chance we would be able to get rail transit from OKC to Tulsa because we and the state could not afford to do everything and this bridge would help make it possible. There was stiff bidding between states and cities for the rail transit money the president was hoping would help begin to build up our national transit infrastructure and also help the economy during the height of the recession. California got a big chunk but believe it or not this bridge was one of the more expensive projects. I wonder if the Feds should look into this as a "breach of contract" of sorts.  

You can't say "Hey we need this to help build the transit line from OKC to Tulsa", then before the project is even done sell another part of the line that would then make it practically impossible to do so.

[Conan71]

The new bridge, I thought, was sold to the Feds as part of a future transit corridor.  We were even told that unless we got this bridge funded that there would be almost no chance we would be able to get rail transit from OKC to Tulsa because we and the state could not afford to do everything and this bridge would help make it possible. There was stiff bidding between states and cities for the rail transit money the president was hoping would help begin to build up our national transit infrastructure and also help the economy during the height of the recession. California got a big chunk but believe it or not this bridge was one of the more expensive projects. I wonder if the Feds should look into this as a "breach of contract" of sorts.  

You can't say "Hey we need this to help build the transit line from OKC to Tulsa", then before the project is even done sell another part of the line that would then make it practically impossible to do so.

Unless this is an attempt by ODOT to flesh out a buyer which would provide passenger rail between OKC and Tulsa.  Though, living in Oklahoma for five decades has taught me to cast a wary eye at the intentions of all state bureaucracies.

[DTowner]

The new bridge, I thought, was sold to the Feds as part of a future transit corridor.  We were even told that unless we got this bridge funded that there would be almost no chance we would be able to get rail transit from OKC to Tulsa because we and the state could not afford to do everything and this bridge would help make it possible. There was stiff bidding between states and cities for the rail transit money the president was hoping would help begin to build up our national transit infrastructure and also help the economy during the height of the recession. California got a big chunk but believe it or not this bridge was one of the more expensive projects. I wonder if the Feds should look into this as a "breach of contract" of sorts.  

You can't say "Hey we need this to help build the transit line from OKC to Tulsa", then before the project is even done sell another part of the line that would then make it practically impossible to do so.

A similar thought occurred to me.  I am currious to know what representations the State/ODOT made to the federal DOT to get the money for our intermodel bridge.

[DTowner]

Unless this is an attempt by ODOT to flesh out a buyer which would provide passenger rail between OKC and Tulsa.  Though, living in Oklahoma for five decades has taught me to cast a wary eye at the intentions of all state bureaucracies.

The "T" in ODOT may stand for Transportation, but the bureaucrats in OKC think of transportation only in terms of roads and bridges.  It's what they do and it's what they know.  Whether it is through bureaucratic inertia or hostility to alternatives to roads, I suspect ODOT has no desire to run a railroad and doesn't want any threat that any of its already limited resources gets diverted to a rail project.