Bishop v. United States: Oklahoma gay marriage

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I thought it was either crazy or insensitive of you to inquire if I was related to Al Sharpton.   Hoping it wasn't the second, I said I'm imagining the breadth of your family tree because I jokingly thought you might be a little "crazy" for making that suggestion.  I don't know you or your family, nor whether you were black, white, green, or polka dot, and I certainly didn't brand you as bigots as per your accusation.  On the contrary, from what you stated, it sounds like you come from a fine family. 

I am African-American born and raised in upstate NY with roots from Virginia, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina.  My great grandfather (my paternal grandmother's father) was a slave from Virginia who eventually ended up in Tennessee before being freed as a young man in his late teens.  He was 97 when he died in 1941.  My family is hardworking, decent, and humble, and we don't have anything to be ashamed of as you so obviously believe from your prefacing remark.

It is all about fairness.  If BS comes to your mind, I have no control over it.

To the suggestion that I perhaps believe that being pro family and personal responsibility is being anti-minority; no I don't.   But I guess a better question for you and your stand up guys is whether you believe that minorities are anti -family and anti-personal responsibility?

Here is a sample of what you and Dbacks fan asked for as if it's so difficult to find.
 
http://www.alternet.org/20-most-racist-things-rush-limbaugh-has-ever-said
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/07/the-20-worst-racial-attacks-limbaughs-advertise/184776
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/07/the-20-worst-racial-attacks-limbaughs-advertise/184776
http://www.newser.com/tag/44698/1/rush-limbaugh-racist-quotes.html
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/rush-limbaugh-racist-quotes-070710
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/bill-o-reilly-to-blacks-stop-listening-to-gangsta-music.html#url=/articles/2014/02/28/bill-o-reilly-to-blacks-stop-listening-to-gangsta-music.html
http://www.newshounds.us/20140304_bill_o_reilly_smears_african_american_pinhead_professor_rants_about_evil_rap_music_again
http://rollingout.com/politics/8-dumbest-quotes-from-bill-oreillys-racist-rant-to-black-america/7/
http://mediamatters.org/research/2007/09/21/oreilly-surprised-there-was-no-difference-betwe/139893
http://crooksandliars.com/heather/hannity-defends-racist-rodeo-clown-mo-stat
http://thegrio.com/2012/07/20/sean-hannitys-record-of-defending-accused-racists/

Ah, yes. The obligatory anything that someone makes a commentary on, or says something that you disagree with is automatically "racist hate speech".

I respectfully walk away from this discussion, because it's starting to devolve, and I'm not going down that road. You have your opinion and I have mine, and obviously mine flies in the face of your reasoning.

[nathanm]

Ah, yes. The obligatory anything that someone makes a commentary on, or says something that you disagree with is automatically "racist hate speech".

Oddly, that seemed to be the only thing I could take away from your collection of quotes from Al Sharpton. Every one of which is just plain true, regardless of whether you think it's racist or not. In fact, I'm struggling to see how any of your quotes except the first are in any way racist or even examples of problematic stereotyping.

I'm sorry that it bothers you that former slaves (like the native americans) were promised a lot of things that were not delivered. I'm even more sorry that it offends you that the news media has a strong bias towards only sensationalizing the murders of white people, with one recent notable exception that proves the rule. How can you claim we are a in a post racial society with a straight face when stuff like this is the status quo?

That something touches on race or acknowledges race does not make it racist. Treating other people better/more fairly does not take anything away from you. In fact it gives something to you: A better society. A lot of us white people (especially we men) don't seem to grasp that it isn't about us. Nobody is calling you a racist. Nobody is calling me a racist. Acknowledging that other people say and do racist things doesn't hurt our position in any way. It only makes us better people to acknowledge reality as it is, rather than as we wish it were.

Edited to add: Unrelated to this specific thread, one of the things that never ceases to amaze me is how people make things about themselves and go on the defensive rather than just accepting that people are telling the truth about their lived experience. You (the royal you) are not an a**hole, that's great. That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of assholes constantly spewing their bile in the direction of the disadvantaged. I'm sincerely glad that you aren't one of them. Why do you feel the need to ignore their existence?

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Oddly, that seemed to be the only thing I could take away from your collection of quotes from Al Sharpton. Every one of which is just plain true, regardless of whether you think it's racist or not. In fact, I'm struggling to see how any of your quotes except the first are in any way racist or even examples of problematic stereotyping.

I'm sorry that it bothers you that former slaves (like the native americans) were promised a lot of things that were not delivered. I'm even more sorry that it offends you that the news media has a strong bias towards only sensationalizing the murders of white people, with one recent notable exception that proves the rule. How can you claim we are a in a post racial society with a straight face when stuff like this is the status quo?

That something touches on race or acknowledges race does not make it racist. Treating other people better/more fairly does not take anything away from you. In fact it gives something to you: A better society. A lot of us white people (especially we men) don't seem to grasp that it isn't about us. Nobody is calling you a racist. Nobody is calling me a racist. Acknowledging that other people say and do racist things doesn't hurt our position in any way. It only makes us better people to acknowledge reality as it is, rather than as we wish it were.

Edited to add: Unrelated to this specific thread, one of the things that never ceases to amaze me is how people make things about themselves and go on the defensive rather than just accepting that people are telling the truth about their lived experience. You (the royal you) are not an a**hole, that's great. That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of assholes constantly spewing their bile in the direction of the disadvantaged. I'm sincerely glad that you aren't one of them. Why do you feel the need to ignore their existence?

I don't know where I learned my tolerance and acceptance from, it wasn't from my parents, nor was it from my siblings, there must be something screwed up in my mind that I am an acceptance person. It may sound cliché, but I don't care who you are, if you are more qualified to do a job, or hold a position in a company or government, you have the right to do so.

As for reparations or conciliations, I don't know of anything more that can be done. I just think that so much now has become racial, and I think that "racist" and "hater" is sadly thrown around, without understanding the history behind it. The renaming of the Brady District has been cause for discussion. It seems that it was based on speculation, half truths, and an attempt to somewhat white wash things that go back to the race riot. I did my senior research paper at Nathan Hale in 1980 on the race riot, and the KKK, and the involvement of the leaders of Tulsa in the 20's. It's really sad that back then, the microfilms of the news articles were ripped out before they were imaged. It's even worse when 30+ years later, I have had people ask me if I have a white hood and cloak in my closet, being that I am an Oklahoma native. I just feel that everything that was fought for in the early to mid-late 20th century is being undone. Read the list of "10 Things about Tulsa" in another thread, and other than the burger joints, it reminds me of why I won't move back, and in a way it's sad, because I was born in the pink palace at 61st and Yale. Mom gave birth to me, and my dad was coaching YMCA baseball across the street.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Back on topic, I have been a supporter of gay marriage since 1983, and asked to leave Tommy's Irish Pub at 21st and Utica in 1984 for my beliefs. I have always thought give them the right to marry, and in the case of divorce, give them the same rights.

[Rookie Okie]

Ah, yes. The obligatory anything that someone makes a commentary on, or says something that you disagree with is automatically "racist hate speech".

I respectfully walk away from this discussion, because it's starting to devolve, and I'm not going down that road. You have your opinion and I have mine, and obviously mine flies in the face of your reasoning.

I don't like to waste time googling unnecessary information.  But you begged me to support my assertions, so I reluctantly "obliged" you.  As Nathanm posted, those old Sharpton comments gave the same obligatory effect.  At least the information that I provided was current.

This discussion devolved several days ago when it was posted that "Better likelihood of it if he were white.  At least there would be more of an outrage.  Consider how Al $harpton and Je$$e Jacka$$ can get away with hurling all sorts of epithets toward Jews and white people without anyone so much as batting an eyelash" in reference to inciting hate.  As someone who is non-white, and whose personal experience has well informed him otherwise, that statement is unequivocally and patently untrue.  The examples of Sharpton and Jackson were probably among the worst 2 that could be used in this case to justify the posters position for there is more outrage over everything that either says compared to just about anyone else I can think of.  My point was only to inform that there are other race baitors out here that spew vitriol and hate, and some are paid a whole lot more money for doing so than the aforementioned pair.

Your statement about self-learning of tolerance and acceptance is very similar to my experience and evolution.  I'm sure it harkens back to my youth when I simply wanted to know what went on outside of the boundary conditions of my existence.  Probably part of the reason I'm in Oklahoma today.  I've always had an affinity for recognizing and understanding differences.  I endeavor to go beyond just acceptance, but actually to affirming and respecting everyone's rights.  Those of course include any rights that are still being denied.

[Red Arrow]

If you believe they make money this way, many more of their white counterparts are making a whole lot more bling (for themselves, networks, and owners) doing the same thing daily.  They desperately endeavor to stir up white rage.  Apparently, couldn't do nearly enough of it to turn the last 2 presidential elections, but oh boy didn't they try. 

Sounds like race baiting to me.   A lot of people cannot accept the fact that others cannot agree with Pres. Obama's views of how to get to a "better" society or sometimes even what "better" may be. 

I thought it was either crazy or insensitive of you to inquire if I was related to Al Sharpton.

Families stick together.

Hoping it wasn't the second, I said I'm imagining the breadth of your family tree because I jokingly thought you might be a little "crazy" for making that suggestion.  I don't know you or your family, nor whether you were black, white, green, or polka dot, and I certainly didn't brand you as bigots as per your accusation.

Given the context of the discussion, "crazy" or "insensitive" never entered my mind.

On the contrary, from what you stated, it sounds like you come from a fine family. 

Thank you for the vote of confidence but you really don't know anything about my family.  It turns out that they are/were OK people. 

It is all about fairness.  If BS comes to your mind, I have no control over it.

True, you have no control over my mind just as I have no control over yours inserting racism into quotes where others may not see it as racism but potential solutions to inequities in today's society.  I can certainly see how you may disagree that the proposed solutions may be valid but to instantly insert racism is, in my mind, incorrect.

To the suggestion that I perhaps believe that being pro family and personal responsibility is being anti-minority; no I don't.

Good.

But I guess a better question for you and your stand up guys is whether you believe that minorities are anti -family and anti-personal responsibility?

My "stand up guys"?  Not really, but I don't believe them to be the blatant racists you appear to believe they are.

My impression of them is not that they believe all minorities are anti-family and anti-personal responsibility so much as they believe that significant portions of (at least some) minorities have a track record which indicates no sense of responsibility toward their offspring.   

Here is a sample of what you and Dbacks fan asked for as if it's so difficult to find.

The samples you provided are hardly the epitome of objectivity.  You have chosen examples that do exactly what you accuse Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Hannity of doing.
   

[cannon_fodder]

How 'bout them gays?  :p

[Conan71]

How 'bout them gays?  :p

They are happy!

[AquaMan]

I don't know any. None in my family. Wouldn't know one if I saw one. Gays are likely as common as aliens in Oklahoma. And just as illegal. So, no problems with them marrying as far I can see. Anyway, why shouldn't they get to share the misery the rest of us have? That is if they exist. And they don't.

[heironymouspasparagus]

They are happy!

They will be getting cured of that particular affliction (happiness) real soon now....they can get married now in a lot of places!

Don't remember where it was, but heard a news thing a few days ago that was making a big deal out of a couple who were "early adopters" of the divorce process.....

[guido911]

I don't know any. None in my family. Wouldn't know one if I saw one. Gays are likely as common as aliens in Oklahoma. And just as illegal. So, no problems with them marrying as far I can see. Anyway, why shouldn't they get to share the misery the rest of us have? That is if they exist. And they don't.

microaggressor...

[AquaMan]

No doubt. Everyone seems to be taking offense at everyone else's language and behavior even when innocently used. Then you add in the seriously sarcastic and hateful language and behavior and we might as well all just shut our pie holes, sit tailor fashion and clasp our hands.

"Can't we just get along?"

[heironymouspasparagus]

microaggressor...

No...he's is simulating the typical Okie....

[AquaMan]

No...he's is simulating the typical Okie....

Very good. It was a little Onion humor.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Very good. It was a little Onion humor.

Sounds about right....


I told some guys at work about Jeff Gordon coming out about his relationship with the other NASCAR driver (not Danica!) that was reported on Empire Sports.... they took it hook line and sinker.   Empire Sports is The Onion for sports....