Ukraine

[Townsend]

I am inclined to blame his staying asleep on his staff.

Is that a First Lady joke?

[heironymouspasparagus]

No, just the former CEO of Costco, and a residential real-estate mogul.

Amazing how everything we say about higher wages for working people - all that better standard of living stuff - is not just illustrated, but is virtually sanctified by his example!  He is up there with Warren Buffet and John Bogle as top business people in the history of the planet!

All the lies, distortions, the dissemination, misleading statements....by the extremist right, whose goal is the elimination of the middle class...have been blindingly shown as the falsehoods they are by Costco.  Average wage around $20 an hour.  Plus benefits!  In retail - and not upscale "Macy's" type retail, either!!   (Or what Macy wanted to be....)

And more than competitive with WalMart/Sam's with their minimum wage, gross lack of imagination and management skill mentality.

[heironymouspasparagus]

If Reagan had been really paying attention, the thud of the wreckage hitting the ground would have wakened him.

I am inclined to blame his staying asleep on his staff.

He was too busy breaking the law in a "3 way" with Nicaragua, Iran, and Oliver North....

[patric]

You guys should read this:

From Tip O'Neil's autobiography:

"All the stories about Reagan`s working only three or four hours a day made me wonder who was really in charge in the White House. I`ll never forget that summer day in 1983 when Flight 007, the Korean airliner, was shot down by the Soviets. I was on Cape Cod, where Secretary of State George Shultz called me at 7 in the morning. After telling me what had happened, he said he was sending down a plane to bring me to Washington for an emergency meeting at the White House.

It only took Reagan a mere four days to break off his vacation after the downing of KAL007.

[Conan71]

You guys should read this:

From Tip O'Neil's autobiography:

"All the stories about Reagan`s working only three or four hours a day made me wonder who was really in charge in the White House. I`ll never forget that summer day in 1983 when Flight 007, the Korean airliner, was shot down by the Soviets. I was on Cape Cod, where Secretary of State George Shultz called me at 7 in the morning. After telling me what had happened, he said he was sending down a plane to bring me to Washington for an emergency meeting at the White House.

``I`ll be ready,`` I said. ``But what does the President think about this?``

``He`s still asleep,`` said Shultz. ``He doesn`t know about it yet.``

``You`ve got to be kidding,`` I said. ``You mean you`re calling me before you`ve even notified the President?``

``We`ll tell him when he wakes up,`` said Shultz. To me, that comment spoke volumes."

I think I know who sounds more disengaged here.  Saint Ronny...but that's just my opinion.

Bill Clark, Reagan's national security advisor tells a different tale, that Reagan was aware of it as soon as CIA director William Casey let Clark know it was apparent the 747 had been shot down by Soviet aircraft.

President Reagan was informed of the KAL catastrophe by his closest aide, national security adviser Bill Clark. As Clark's biographer, I discussed this with him many times.

Reagan was at his ranch in the Santa Ynez Mountains north of Santa Barbara when he received the news via telephone from Clark. "I told him Bill Casey [CIA director] just relayed an unsubstantiated report that the Soviets may have shot down an airliner, possibly Korean," Clark told me. Reagan replied to Clark: "Bill, let's pray it's not true."

They prayed, but it was true. The Soviets never let prayer get in the way of their work.

As Clark recalled, "He [Reagan] said, 'Bill, round table it,' which meant bring it to the decision-making process to get the opinions and recommendations of all the principals in the NSC: Shultz, Weinberger, Kirkpatrick, Casey...."

Clark called Reagan twice that evening with preliminary information, first at 7:30 PM, California time. Clark was in the "Western Situation Room" at the Biltmore Hotel in Santa Barbara, only a few miles from Reagan. They were not able to confirm the details until 7:10 AM the next morning.

Reagan was furious. John Barletta, his riding companion at the ranch, overheard Reagan shout: "Those were innocent civilians. Damn those Russians!"

Clark told the press that he personally expected the Soviets to perpetuate the "big lie" technique. He said he wouldn't be surprised if the Russians claimed that the commercial airliner was on an American espionage mission.


Reagan immediately helicoptered to Point Mugu Naval Air Station in California to board Air Force One for Washington. At 12:35 PM, from the tarmac, he spoke to the press, excoriating the Soviets for committing a "brutal," "callous," and "heinous act"—a "barbaric act," a "terrorist act." It was all made worse, he said, by the fact that the Russians "so flagrantly lie."

http://spectator.org/articles/60015/mh-17-vs-kal-007—obama-vs-reagan

The biggest difference is Reagan, recognizing the gravity of the situation, cut short his planned vacation and fund raisers to return to Washington. 

There was plenty of criticism at the time because Reagan never spoke at length until four days after the tragedy.  At the time, we were still in the depths of the cold war so there had to be a measured and cautious response.  I'll even go so far as to say that there's a need for Obama to tread on eggshells with Putin who is acting more and more like the Soviet premiers of yesterday.

It simply seems like there's a lot of escapism with the current president than with previous ones when the smile hits the fan.  That's his style and it doesn't bother many of you, I get it.  I guess I'm used to presidents acting, well, more presidential when a crisis happens.

[Gaspar]

Bill Clark, Reagan's national security advisor tells a different tale, that Reagan was aware of it as soon as CIA director William Casey let Clark know it was apparent the 747 had been shot down by Soviet aircraft.

The biggest difference is Reagan, recognizing the gravity of the situation, cut short his planned vacation and fund raisers to return to Washington. 

There was plenty of criticism at the time because Reagan never spoke at length until four days after the tragedy.  At the time, we were still in the depths of the cold war so there had to be a measured and cautious response.  I'll even go so far as to say that there's a need for Obama to tread on eggshells with Putin who is acting more and more like the Soviet premiers of yesterday.

It simply seems like there's a lot of escapism with the current president than with previous ones when the smile hits the fan.  That's his style and it doesn't bother many of you, I get it.  I guess I'm used to presidents acting, well, more presidential when a crisis happens.

His televised response was very powerful and blunt.  It came from a president in the Oval Office, not as an aside during a campaign speech, or a brief public remark at a fundraiser.  Still gives you chills to watch.

[Townsend]

I guess I'm used to presidents acting, well, more presidential when a crisis happens.

Eh...

[patric]

There was plenty of criticism at the time because Reagan never spoke at length until four days after the tragedy.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/xne6vj/cover-up-in-the-air---what-would-reagan-do-

[Conan71]

Eh...

You got to admit Bush was well-trained in the art of shoe-ducking.  And anyone with any intelligence knows he kept a copy of My Pet Goat on his night stand.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I guess I'm used to presidents acting, well, more presidential when a crisis happens.

No.  You are not.  Because it hasn't happened since Gerald Ford and you were too young at that time to be politically aware.

[TheArtist]

 Yes it would have been great for the President to go on national television and castigate the Russians for the downing of this plane... only to find out a few days later that it was the Ukranians that shot it down.  The Russians would have had an absolute field day with that.  It was an awful act regardless of who did it, but it would have been unwise to point fingers until more certainty prevailed.  Things were much clearer back when the Russians shot down that plane during Reagan's time and gave him a great opportunity to be "tough and clear".  

[heironymouspasparagus]

His televised response was very powerful and blunt.  It came from a president in the Oval Office, not as an aside during a campaign speech, or a brief public remark at a fundraiser.  Still gives you chills to watch.

Not much else happened either, besides that speech.  But it made us "feel good"....

[Ed W]

So, again, what should our president be doing? Bombers over Moscow? Nuke parts of Ukraine?

[RecycleMichael]

I guess I'm used to presidents acting, well, more presidential when a crisis happens.

That is why you like Reagan. He was an actor playing President. While he was studying his lines, his cabinet was trying to ruin the country and deal arms to our enemies.

[Red Arrow]

That is why you like Reagan. He was an actor playing President. While he was studying his lines, his cabinet was trying to ruin the country and deal arms to our enemies.

I sure wish they had left double digit inflation in place.  I could be a millionaire by now.  Gasoline would be nearly $18/gal but who would care.
{1.10**30 = 17.45}
http://www.inthe80s.com/prices.shtml

Simple savings calculator:
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/simple-savings-calculator.aspx