Tulsa Schools and New Standardized Testing & Common Core

[Gaspar]

[heironymouspasparagus]

I know it's a cartoon, but it hits way too close to home!!  That is virtually verbatim the letter I would have written to Jack.  The poor kid ain't got a chance!

The grandkids are mostly through all this nonsense now, but when we have occasion to talk, the "Common (Core)" refrain I hear from them is "I'm no good at math..."  When I dig deeper, it turns out each of them gets hung up on fractions.  Simple stuff.  And then we have short tutorials - and yeah, I have to repeat it occasionally dur to lack of immersion in the subject - and they have all been stunned at how straightforward it is when you learn correct methods. 

I see on the Common Core web site that one of their "goals" is to have kids ready for algebra by 8th grade!  Geez, what a massive "FAIL" that is!!  Kids should be starting simple algebra concepts NO later than 5th grade!!  My elementary - in a different state - started us on algebra at end of 4th and continued through 5th - and it took 6th, 7th, and into 8th grade here to "catch up" to where I had been.  And not just algebra!

We are underestimating kids and under-challenging them in the correct topics!  Reading.  Writing.  Arithmetic.   NOT video game/computer learning nonsense until much later in the process!

[nathanm]

It's too caught up in "solving" a question using a variety of methods and in the end, not one of them is truly retained/learned/mastered. Until they have a grasp of basics, what purpose does it serve to add additional steps? They no longer "carry over" when multiplying, they group them into easier sets. They no longer "borrow" numbers when subtracting either.

Sounds to me like common core teaches kids how to rearrange a problem into a simpler formulation. I'm not quite sure why that's a bad thing, but that may be because I haven't written out a math problem on paper in 15 years.

H, algebra was generally not taught until 9th (8th for AP kids) grade when I was in school. And that was in what was considered a pretty good school (and district). The standard progression was Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and then Precal as a senior. AP kids got calculus as seniors instead. Not being a teacher, I have no idea whether that's the best way of doing things, only that it has been the standard for a very long time.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sounds to me like common core teaches kids how to rearrange a problem into a simpler formulation. I'm not quite sure why that's a bad thing, but that may be because I haven't written out a math problem on paper in 15 years.

H, algebra was generally not taught until 9th (8th for AP kids) grade when I was in school. And that was in what was considered a pretty good school (and district). The standard progression was Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and then Precal as a senior. AP kids got calculus as seniors instead. Not being a teacher, I have no idea whether that's the best way of doing things, only that it has been the standard for a very long time.

Standard starting time in TPS was 8th grade.  I took it in 7th - I guess a kind of precursor to AP...??  Whitney Junior High.  Mrs. Cuffel (sp?), Instructor.  She had the most god-awful attitude for the first 3 weeks or so...pissed off every 7th grader in the class - it was only 7th graders in that class - 'till the parents met with Principal.  I heard about that from my parents...he told her, this is what she had been wanting her entire career - a class full of kids who weren't there because they had to be, but because they wanted to be!  Literally, the very next day, she was an absolutely different, transformed person!  Turned out to be one of the best teachers I ever had....and one of the few whose name I can remember.  

Along with Rena Gene Fleming - superb Spanish teacher!


Geometry in 8th, then Alg II.  Trig in 10th.  Then linear alg in 11th.  Calc in 12.  Had to re-learn calc in college - didn't "stick" in high school - I wasn't that interested at the time.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I believe the graph should start his number line from 316 instead of 121.  Then I think they would jump from 316 + 4 to 320 and then add 30 to get 350 another 50 to get 400.  Then add 20 and then 7.

At least I thought that was how it was supposed to work.

[TheArtist]

This is all quite interesting.  I was prepared to say something about how someone in 5th grade at about age 10 or 11 may not be ready for abstract reasoning (remembering my college developmental psychology classes) and children develop at different speeds such that some may be left behind if they are not ready and begin a negative spiral.  And then put that with my own first experience of being presented with an "X" instead of a number and the tears it brought for I couldn't understand what the heck they were talking about "I remember crying, "How can it be number, its an X!?"".  Then ran across this article....http://hepg.org/hel/article/533  and I can see where they are going with this.  They start very general in ways that young kids can understand so that they are familiar with the concepts and not suddenly presented with something completely new all at once.  But one can also see how this (understanding things/concepts from a different general perspective/way) might go too far and you leave out how to "do math" the old fashioned way that is also important to know.

My brain was always much better at reasoning/"understanding" than remembering lists of rules.  I was taught math as a series of rules you had to memorize, without being taught any understanding, aka, what it meant.  My brain doesn't remember "lists" and rules, but I can figure things out (if confronted with a math problem I practically reinvent the a way to find it out as if I am some ancient Greek mathematician) lol.  I remember at an early age being able to read up to a high school and higher level (and being told by my teacher to not go any further with the reading program, that I was going too far ahead), but not being able to recite my alphabet and getting in trouble for that (why one supposedly HAD to memorize that horribly long list of letters I don't know lol).  Math was like that for me as well.  It was taught as a series of rules "do this, then do that, in this situation, do this, then that and that.  It was rule, upon rule upon rule, and the further along you got the longer the memorized list of rules became (oh and speaking of lists to memorize, egads, memorizing the multiplications tables was a nightmare for me lol).  

One other example.  First computer class I took in college, way back when.  First part of the semester was "concepts" and history etc. from a book, second half was sitting in front of the computer and doing stuff.  I breezed through the first half while others struggled.  Everyone else in the class was complaining and throwing a fuss about how hard it was while I thought it was easy breezy. One day after the rest were complaining that they would likely fail the next test the professor said he would grade on a curve.  I made a 98 on the test, the rest of the class was about to stone me, then the professor said he would drop my grade from the curve and let the next best score "a 78" start the curve.  I remember in particular this one blonde girl who I thought must have been so stupid that I couldn't imagine how she even functioned in the world seeing her grades and her struggle. 

Then came the second part of the semester, sitting behind the computer and "making it go". Do this, then do that, then do this and that.  I was lost the first day. Meanwhile that blond girl sitting next to me was breezing right along as if it were nothing.  I ended up dropping out of the class.  I simply couldn't do it and was almost in tears.  Reinforced in a big way the lesson that not everyones brains think or function the same way "may be true for the unwashed masses, but not for moi lol" and that just because someone can't do what you think is easy, doesn't mean that they don't have an ability of their own and that everyone has value.

[Red Arrow]

My brain was always much better at reasoning/"understanding" than remembering lists of rules.  I was taught math as a series of rules you had to memorize, without being taught any understanding, aka, what it meant.  My brain doesn't remember "lists" and rules, but I can figure things out (if confronted with a math problem I practically reinvent the a way to find it out as if I am some ancient Greek mathematician) lol.

I am not a memorizer either.  I learned the rules because I knew they were the wrenches of math.  My dad, one of his brothers, and an uncle were engineers (2 EEs and a Chem E) so I probably had more encouragement to learn math.  If you could have magically learned the rules, you probably would have done well.  

I remember having to memorize the "Midnight Ride of Paul Revere".  I lost count of how many times I actually wrote that #%^% poem out longhand to practice.  I passed by  writing it one more time in class.  A week later I couldn't have done it.  On the other hand I still remember the ignition point dwell on a GM V8 was 30º.  Just clip on the meter and dial it in with an "Allen" wrench.  Dad (EE) explained that approximately 2/3 of the time available for each cylinder was required to "charge" the ignition coil.  2/3 of 45º (8 flats on the point cam) was 30º.  Easy.  I haven't owned a car that needed that for 20 years.  I did well in math up to Differential Equations.  The  prof tried to teach us to assume a solution of the correct form and then verify it was correct.  I asked how to determine the correct form.  He said you just had to know. Then he would put an equation on the test unlike those we had seen and practiced.  I passed but not with a good grade.  I the engineering world if you need a solution of an uncommon form and LaPlace transforms won't do it, find a mathematician.

Edit:
Add " " to charge because you don't really "charge" an coil.  You need to let the current flow develop.

[Gaspar]

Step in the right direction!
http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/education/oklahoma-senate-panel-to-hear-repeal-of-common-core/25133604

OKLAHOMA CITY —A state Senate committee has passed legislation that would limit federal control over so-called Common Core standards for math and English instruction in Oklahoma's public schools.
   
The Senate Education Committee voted 11-0 for the measure Monday. The House-passed bill authorizes development of new English and math standards and prohibits the state Board of Education from entering into any contract that would limit state control.
   
The measure's author, Sen. Josh Brecheen of Coalgate, says the bill ensures that Oklahoma's standards exceed those of Common Core without surrendering state control. Under the bill, the Board of Education would work with higher education and Career-Tech officials to adopt new standards by 2015.

[Kallima]

Sounds to me like common core teaches kids how to rearrange a problem into a simpler formulation. I'm not quite sure why that's a bad thing, but that may be because I haven't written out a math problem on paper in 15 years.

H, algebra was generally not taught until 9th (8th for AP kids) grade when I was in school. And that was in what was considered a pretty good school (and district). The standard progression was Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and then Precal as a senior. AP kids got calculus as seniors instead. Not being a teacher, I have no idea whether that's the best way of doing things, only that it has been the standard for a very long time.

Some of it is rearranging it into "simpler" math but it's not working for them, and when I showed them the way I do math - it works, but they can't use it because they get penalized, so we struggle doing it together. I suppose I was very lucky because my school and teachers embraced independent thinking. I was allowed to work independently in grade school during math class, if I solved a math problem doing it a different way than I was taught, as long as I showed my work, I received credit. I don't see the harm in allowing students to use the method which serves them best, I do see harm in forcing them to do it one way or points are deducted, despite having the correct answer. What kind of minds are we raising teaching them "there is only ONE way to solve this problem" and if they don't adhere to that one (usually inefficient) way, then they'll be penalized?

And I'm sorry, but sometimes memorization is unavoidable. How else but through memorization does one learn definitions, increase vocabulary, and proper grammar? 

[TheArtist]

And I'm sorry, but sometimes memorization is unavoidable. How else but through memorization does one learn definitions, increase vocabulary, and proper grammar? 

Reading & Context

[Red Arrow]

I was allowed to work independently in grade school during math class, if I solved a math problem doing it a different way than I was taught, as long as I showed my work, I received credit. I don't see the harm in allowing students to use the method which serves them best, I do see harm in forcing them to do it one way or points are deducted, despite having the correct answer.

My  favorite method was to show my work, multiply those results by zero, then add the correct answer.

[rebound]

You guys didn't use number lines when you were in grade school?  How old is Jack?  I assume he's in early grade school.   This particular exercise isn't designed to teach the fastest method of solving the problem, but rather to create a visual cue (via the number line) that the number can be broken up into multiple sets of 100's, 10's, and 1's, and by lining those sets up on a line the correct answer can be found.  It's a very good (albeit inefficient) method to illustrate how to break down simple numbers and solve problems.  Now if they're teaching this in fifth grade I have a problem, but for 1st or 2nd, it could help some kids learn.

"Frustrated Parent" sounds like an @$$.  First,  I guess he's (or She's, don't want to place blame, but it reads like a guy...) forgotten that he didn't immediately start doing calculations in the most simplistic manner.  He had to learn the mechanics behind them before he learned the cheats.  Or maybe that's the problem, he never did learn the foundations and can only figure things out in the way he is accustomed to working the problem.  I'm sure a high-falutin' Elec Engineer like FP would look down on me because I'm only an MS in Industrial Engineering. But instead of working on machines, I work with people, and it took me about five seconds to see what Jack did wrong.  Maybe Frustrated Parent needs a little more human interaction to understand that not everybody thinks the same way (or in the same manner) as he does.     

[AquaMan]

How long has common core been in operation?

I remember some controversy about a math program called "base 10" back when my little brother was in grade school. Parents couldn't understand it and complained but it didn't hold my brother back. He became a computer engineer.

[Kallima]

Reading & Context

Yes, those are great tools and how I expanded my vocabulary as a youngster, but not all definitions can be deduced based on the context or structure of a sentence. I'll use gratuitous as an example since it was one of the most recent vocabulary builders I gave to my nephew. "The violence of some video games are gratuitous." He knew one definition of the word, but it didn't apply in this situation so he was forced to actually open a dictionary and look up alternate definitions. Reading and context can only provide so much, the rest is memorization and application. You can read all the great tomes you want, but if you are taking a test/quiz and are asked to identify all the verbs and adjectives, unless that definition/concept of a verb and adjective has been memorized, you'll fail the test. Just to add, my 8th grade niece reads at least 1 book a week yet she can not properly identify the object of a preposition. There are some things that must be memorized. Is it fun? Not particularly, but it is sometimes a necessary evil, much like taxes.

[Kallima]

You guys didn't use number lines when you were in grade school?  How old is Jack?  I assume he's in early grade school.   This particular exercise isn't designed to teach the fastest method of solving the problem, but rather to create a visual cue (via the number line) that the number can be broken up into multiple sets of 100's, 10's, and 1's, and by lining those sets up on a line the correct answer can be found.  It's a very good (albeit inefficient) method to illustrate how to break down simple numbers and solve problems.  Now if they're teaching this in fifth grade I have a problem, but for 1st or 2nd, it could help some kids learn.

"Frustrated Parent" sounds like an @$$.  First,  I guess he's (or She's, don't want to place blame, but it reads like a guy...) forgotten that he didn't immediately start doing calculations in the most simplistic manner.  He had to learn the mechanics behind them before he learned the cheats.  Or maybe that's the problem, he never did learn the foundations and can only figure things out in the way he is accustomed to working the problem.  I'm sure a high-falutin' Elec Engineer like FP would look down on me because I'm only an MS in Industrial Engineering. But instead of working on machines, I work with people, and it took me about five seconds to see what Jack did wrong.  Maybe Frustrated Parent needs a little more human interaction to understand that not everybody thinks the same way (or in the same manner) as he does.     

My youngest niece is in the 6th grade and in advanced classes, I'll have to upload an example of how they are teaching math these days. Trust me, I don't have children and if not thrust into this situation due to circumstances beyond my control, I would have been blissfully ignorant of what is going on in our public schools, but the more involved I become, the more terrified I get. Never once did I think home schooling or private school was a superior alternative to public schools, but that is an opinion I am slowly reconsidering.