School Lunches

[Townsend]

Hang on gang, Obama is going to by-pass Congress and push his global warming agenda thru via the United Nations.

Placing your other unsubstantiated crazy to the side, you realize the UN has no power over the USA?  It doesn't matter how often Glenn Beck may speak to you about it in your dreams.

On a side note, if you're just mucking about and this is a made up online character, please try to keep the crazy crap in politics.

[Gaspar]

Hang on gang, Obama is going to by-pass Congress and push his global warming agenda thru via the United Nations. hang on to your wallet as our electric bills double & tripple and gasoline spikes at $10.00 a gallon. All in the name of a Climate  hoax. Kill the jobs, kill the economy, and bring the USA down to it's knees and this  will be one thing that is  all man made-- the  economic distruction of our nation. Since Obama took power  the  national average of gasoline  never fell below $3.00 a gallon. When Bush left office gasoline was $1.70 a gallon cheap by todays standards. Obama's war on oil & coal has not really even started yet remember Obama has two more years and nothing to lose by going all out radical left... Anyhow back to Michelle Obama and her self appointed job as Food Police. The result has been a huge increase of wasted food. Kids eat with their taste buds and always will, it's hard to force kids to eat something they don't wanna eat. The schools have been throwing away alot of good food.

No he's not.  He's going to go to fundraisers and talk about global warming, then he's going to survey the effects of the global warming on fescue and bent grass. . . and report the results at future fundraisers.

[Red Arrow]

Man, FOX news really has you guys F'd up.

You weren't paying attention.  It was on Public Radio. (KWGS)

[Hoss]

You weren't paying attention.  It was on Public Radio. (KWGS)

If you say so....

[Townsend]

If you say so....

Eh, he gives it a shot

[guido911]

ACTIVATE!!!



"Form of"

[Red Arrow]

Eh, he gives it a shot

DUCK!

[heironymouspasparagus]

What is incorrect about my post? Did not Al Gore say in the early 1990's that  by the year 2000 NY would be under water because of global warming? I remember it.

No.  He did not.  He has made predictions about ocean levels rising over the next century - and they are probably too high, because it will take longer for Antarctica to melt - and that is where all the water is.  Greenland is impressive, but not the big water source.

Tarawa is pretty much all gone now.  So are the glaciers in Glacier National Park - probably gonna have to rename the place. 

CO2 is almost double.  And it is also known that volcanic activity - dust in the air - is what has caused the slowdown in temperature increases.

The biggest problem is not that the ice is gonna melt and flood New York - that is trivial compared to the real problem.  The real problem is the fact that ALL the plants we depend on for everything must be pollinated in some fashion.  Additionally, ALL of them don't do that at high temperatures.  Like above 90 degrees F or so.  Some a little lower, some a little higher.  So even with an average global temperature somewhere in the 60 range, pollination could easily be interrupted with a modest rise in average, because it is the high temps and their timing that make the difference.  If it gets to much more than 90 in June over a wider area, then less pollination, less fruit/vegetable/grain, less plant production.  It's a sliding scale that will vary based on location and weather patterns.  Probably not going to be growing Okra on the Arctic Circle anytime soon, but also not likely to grow worldwide supply of fruit/vegetable/grains there either.  Leading to fewer people.  Bigger desserts.

On the other hand, if we did go to ice age, same problem - other direction.  Miles of ice sitting on top of Kansas City are going to be problematic.  Plants won't be able to pollinate and mature due to being too cold.  Still not likely to be able to grow worldwide supply of food at today's population levels. 

And yeah, I know about fiddlehead ferns - the type of plant from 100 million years ago and much hotter climate.  Can't grow enough, fast enough for the world.

[RecycleMichael]

The real problem is the fact that ALL the plants we depend on for everything must be pollinated in some fashion. Additionally, ALL of them don't do that at high temperatures.  Like above 90 degrees F or so.  Some a little lower, some a little higher.  So even with an average global temperature somewhere in the 60 range, pollination could easily be interrupted with a modest rise in average, because it is the high temps and their timing that make the difference.  If it gets to much more than 90 in June over a wider area, then less pollination, less fruit/vegetable/grain, less plant production.  It's a sliding scale that will vary based on location and weather patterns.  Probably not going to be growing Okra on the Arctic Circle anytime soon, but also not likely to grow worldwide supply of fruit/vegetable/grains there either.  Leading to fewer people.  Bigger desserts.

That is well said.

The deserts will grow.

[guido911]

That is well said.

The deserts will grow.

Because, "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal..."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Because, "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal..."

The planet is always "healed"...it never really has an issue with what is going on around it.  When the big semi-planet that collided with it and spun off the moon, it didn't care...it just kept orbiting.

It is our little place in the overall scheme of things that is at issue.  When the dinosaurs were around, Antarctica was a lush tropical place.  With much higher oxygen levels in the atmosphere.  NOT the kind of place where humans would thrive...maybe not even survive. 

The problem is the limited temperature/humidity range that all of our main staples can function as large scale feedstocks for the human population.  Outside that range, we are a small population of insignificant "hangers-on" trying to muddle through the next foraging session.  If the species is lucky enough to survive.  Somewhere around 99%+ of the worlds species haven't survived.  We're special....so far!

[RecycleMichael]

I know that guido911 and sauerkraut are experts on global temperatures and don't need to read any more evidence that contradicts with their views. But for those who wants facts...

To me, trying to say that air temperature from cold winters is proof that global warming is a hoax is simply using poor data. 97% of scientists believe global warming is real and the ones that don't are studying air temperatures like meteorologists. Unfortunately, that is like thinking the turkey in the oven is ready because the oven temperature. It is the bird temperature that matters.

Our planet is about 75% water so the ocean temperature matters way more than air temperature. And their has been quite a bit of research lately showing rising water temperatures. Here is a page from the Union of Concerned Scientists...

http://www.climatehotmap.org/global-warming-effects/ocean-temperature.html

The oceans might be a temporary answer to storing the rising temperature. Here is a fascinating article saying that deeper and deeper depths are warming (absorbing) these higher temperatures. 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140821-global-warming-hiatus-climate-change-ocean-science

Of course hotter water temperatures might buy some time for other parts of the planet to heal, but then again might lead to other problems.

I believe this is a serious problem and anyone who doesn't believe in the science is a fool. You can argue whether or not this problem is man-made, but ignoring the facts of hotter temperatures is simply foolish.
 

[heironymouspasparagus]

To me, trying to say that air temperature from cold winters is proof that global warming is a hoax is simply using poor data. 97% of scientists believe global warming is real and the ones that don't are studying air temperatures like meteorologists. Unfortunately, that is like thinking the turkey in the oven is ready because the oven temperature. It is the bird temperature that matters.

I believe this is a serious problem and anyone who doesn't believe in the science is a fool. You can argue whether or not this problem is man-made, but ignoring the facts of hotter temperatures is simply foolish.
 

The big difference between now and the past is very plain to see in the Vostoc graphs.  For the last 400,000 years, when a change has occurred, the temperature changes first, followed by CO2 levels.  For every one of the 4 cycles seen previously.  It appears to me - and I haven't seen any decent discussions of it by anyone else....no published studies - that the temp started an up trend.  The resident flora grew for longer times every annual cycle, which one might think would soak up extra CO2.  Which it would for a while.  But then, that extra vegetation starts to die off at an increased rate, releasing that CO2 back into the environment.  New equilibrium after some time....hundreds to thousands of years - but higher net CO2 levels, hence the following increases after temp starts to rise.  At the same time, an increase in fauna, which breathes in O (oxygen), uses it to make CO2.  More O, more CO2, bigger animals.  Think cave bears, mammoths, large fauna stuff.

Certainly a lot of this also going on in the oceans....more animals, more CO2.  More algae, more O.  Haven't found any curves on O over the same times, but I would bet that it follows the CO2 with about the same timing and magnitude of increase, since it goes hand in hand with plants/animals activity.

In addition to more desserts, there will be more forests, savannahs, etc.  Just like has happened every cycle in the past.  Are we gonna be able to survive at average of 75 degrees (as opposed to todays 59) ??  That would probably mean summer highs of 125 to 135 in a warm year.  How will we do with 58 days over 115 -120 rather than 58 days over 100-105?  Since it would probably start in late May, I bet you won't be getting any tomatoes around here....maybe from mid to northern Canada.

We are gonna need new food plants.....

Or hope and pray for more volcanic activity....

[Red Arrow]

You can argue whether or not this problem is man-made, but ignoring the facts of hotter temperatures is simply foolish.

If it is not man-made, what do you intend to do about it?

[heironymouspasparagus]

The oceans might be a temporary answer to storing the rising temperature. Here is a fascinating article saying that deeper and deeper depths are warming (absorbing) these higher temperatures. 

That leads us to a slightly different question that has puzzled me somewhat from time to time....we know that the deep ocean temperature approaches 32 degrees.  Also, it is well known that the earth gets hotter, the deeper you go....10,000 ft in an oil well, you will have 175 degrees and up - sometimes way up.

So, with the bottom of the ocean being 25,000 deep and cold, and the temperature under the crust at 25,000 ft being hot....how did that happen?  What made the oceans get that cold in the first place??  Why aren't the oceans much warmer than they are?  (Evaporation won't work - even over the big surface area.)