TCC - downtown surface lots

[RecycleMichael]

Trees are great - we need more of them.  The problem comes due to the way they are planted with no space around where a root ball should be developing.  They get no rain in most cases, and will not thrive IF they do survive.  Depending on the tree, they should have a 30 to 40 ft circle of grass space per tree - open with NO concrete covering.  That's 3 cars worth of space....

I am part of the group that has been planting trees downtown. You are correct that it is hard to plant a tree in a concrete box. But we have made some great progress in rebuilding the planter boxes and getting trees to live. Last year we planted 155 trees downtown. We are hand watering and using bags to slowly release water for the first three years to give them a chance to survive.

[TheArtist]

I am part of the group that has been planting trees downtown. You are correct that it is hard to plant a tree in a concrete box. But we have made some great progress in rebuilding the planter boxes and getting trees to live. Last year we planted 155 trees downtown. We are hand watering and using bags to slowly release water for the first three years to give them a chance to survive.

I had planted a little tree seedling in an empty planter area in front of the shop.  It had grown to about 3' tall when the city came by and killed it with spray.       I will try again this fall.

[Conan71]

Actually, pedestrian counts would be a key metric on where and whether to locate a retail business downtown.  LOTS of cities, both large and small do so and more and more are realizing its importance.  In most european cities it's the be all end all count that matters.  If you have a street that only 600 people go down all day, or a street like I was reading about the other day that had slow traffic then they did some pedestrian friendly upgrades and went up to 60,000 people per day,,, well I know where I would want my shop! lol

And that's the way things can be in an urban environment, one street can be quite busy, the the next street over, dead.  Also, some streets can command higher rents and desirability if they have the right pedestrian counts.  If people in our city are still just looking at population as a metric for downtown retail, omg.   they are still thinking of it as just another suburban type area and this perspective will obviously not allow them to be seeing things in a way that will help them make the correct decisions per a CBD type area or even help businesses make those decisions. A business that is used to locating in urban areas and or wants to locate in an urban area like the CBD will expect to see pedestrian counts.  If you don't have them they may look at you like your crazy or don't know what your doing.

Some bits from some other websites and some other random cities websites.


"With the installation in 2011 of 14 cameras that measure pedestrian volumes 24 hours a day, the CCD now provides retailers, brokers, and developers with detailed counts and analyses of hourly trends.n the following section are links to the monthly reports for the camera locations shown in the map above. These reports detail pedestrian activity broken down by day of the week, time of day, and location. If you would like additional data for any of the identified blocks, please contact the retail liason at retail@centercityphila.org."

"Pedestrians are not only an indisputable fact, but a vitalizing force in the activity of traffic-generating centers of the city. This is particularly so in the CBD.
Land Use and Availability of Pedestrian Routes. Land use and the availability of pedestrian routes act as constraints upon the distances people must walk and the paths they choose within the downtown area. Land use in the CBD may be considered as a network of pedestrian traffic generators separated by varying distances. Where related land uses are far apart, the effect may be to discourage walking between them. In the case of retail operations, which rely directly on pedestrian traffic for business, the distance between stores has vital economic ramifications.

A recent survey of pedestrian habits in Washington, D.C., for example, revealed that there was greater mutual exchange of pedestrians between stores in a large retailing concentration than in a dispersed retail area.10 And a background study for Cleveland's downtown plan noted that the separation of the two major shopping store concentrations created intervening pedestrian dead spots where nonretail functions failed to channel large numbers of shoppers-on-foot.11 It was precisely this relation between pedestrian movement and land use which, among other things, researchers on Buffalo's CBD grasped in recommending a redevelopment project which would induce pedestrian movement through the heart of the retail area and encourage walking on both sides of the main shopping street.12

The pedestrian count has a wide variety of other applications. Not directly germane to pedestrian planning itself, they are mentioned here briefly. The count may be used to:

a. Select retail store locations on the basis of pedestrian movement past prospective locations.15

b. Select locations for public buildings such as libraries so that they are accessible to the centers of CBD pedestrian movement.

c. Determine downtown retail property values on the basis of pedestrian traffic volumes.

Portland

"As part of our commitment to the vitality of the urban core, the Clean & Safe District. The Clean & Safe District conducts biannual pedestrian traffic counts. The purpose of the counts is to track pedestrian traffic volumes in front of key intersections within the downtown core, available retail space and parcels poised for redevelopment."



Denver
"Since 1994, the Downtown Denver Business Improvement District (BID) has funded two pedestrian counts in
Downtown Denver each year. The BID conducts a comprehensive count in the summer and a partial count in
the winter. This report summarizes data collected during the summer of 2012.
Pedestrian counts allow Downtown Denver stakeholders to:
 Measure pedestrian traffic for prospective Downtown Denver retailers, developers and businesses.
 Determine the impact of new development."

Raleigh
The Downtown Raleigh Alliance (DRA) commissioned this study of
pedestrian activity in key downtown corridors as a means of furthering
the downtown's economic development goals.Economically, the
count data will support local efforts to attract new and expanded retail,
restaurants, and commercial occupants, each of which bears a unique
relationship to pedestrian activity in terms of peak periods of activity,
location, and visibility.
This pedestrian count also contributes to the broader vision of promoting
downtown Raleigh as a regional center of commerce, tourism, and
livability. Walkable streetscapes are a cornerstone of a thriving downtown
and a growing urban economy.

Check with the MCC or one of the property companies leasing in the area in question.

In lieu of a pedestrian count, it's useful to know how many people live, work, or are staying within a couple of blocks of a proposed retail establishment, there's your potential customer base. 

[carltonplace]

The south side of downtown continues to be torn down and paved almost as if it is a completely different entity from the rest of downtown where new construction is booming.

TCC's influence and use of our tax dollars to purchase and level our southern downtown is unforgivable to me. If TCC needs suburban parking space there are plenty of nearby open areas that they can move to and pave over and still be close to downtown. If they want to remain downtown then they should embrace density and allow for infill.

In RE: Trees - The Blue Dome area desperately needs some.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I am part of the group that has been planting trees downtown. You are correct that it is hard to plant a tree in a concrete box. But we have made some great progress in rebuilding the planter boxes and getting trees to live. Last year we planted 155 trees downtown. We are hand watering and using bags to slowly release water for the first three years to give them a chance to survive.

I'm not against the planting of trees at all...in fact, very much in favor of it!!  

What gets me is the planting in a box.  A sidewalk box is a torture chamber for a tree.  They can never thrive and do well.  What should be a 70 ft oak will get to about 15 - 20 feet.  Will always be anemic, prone to catch any and every disease that comes along, and die very, very young.  I suspect that every sidewalk tree that was in place in 1970 - 1975, when I lived downtown is now dead.  Many of the trees planted should have life expectancies of 75 years - or much more.

Even a continuous grass strip the same width as the planting box would help, but our city streets just won't allow that - sidewalk is too crowded.  There is no good solution - planting replacements every 10 to 15 years will likely always be the "standard procedure".

Rule of thumb is that the root zone taking up water/nutrients will be at the outside diameter of the tree above ground - the 'drip line'.  The converse occurs - if the root is limited on where it can get water/nutrients, then the top will be limited, too.

A parking lot gives the opportunity to at least give a tree a chance - if the zoning regs were proper - requiring green spaces.... 

[heironymouspasparagus]

And yes,.... I am very definitely a tree hugger!!   Anyone with even half a brain left is....it's only those with less than that who aren't.

[rebound]

What gets me is the planting in a box.  A sidewalk box is a torture chamber for a tree.  They can never thrive and do well.  What should be a 70 ft oak will get to about 15 - 20 feet.  Will always be anemic, prone to catch any and every disease that comes along, and die very, very young.  I suspect that every sidewalk tree that was in place in 1970 - 1975, when I lived downtown is now dead.  Many of the trees planted should have life expectancies of 75 years - or much more.

I agree on the box.  But I might suggest that Oaks, or other trees that grow very large, aren't the best for city streets mainly because of the space limitation you note.   How about going native, with Redbuds or similar? (Not an arborist, but there's got to be several similar options...) They are slow growing, don't get as large, and very hardy once established.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I agree on the box.  But I might suggest that Oaks, or other trees that grow very large, aren't the best for city streets mainly because of the space limitation you note.   How about going native, with Redbuds or similar? (Not an arborist, but there's got to be several similar options...) They are slow growing, don't get as large, and very hardy once established.

They might be good for that....kind of brittle, though.  And they will need care/pruning for several years to get the canopy up high enough not to irritate people.

Autumn Purple Ash is a wonderful tree for limited spaces that grows slow, still needs attention in the early years (they all do!) and makes a magnificent fall display!!  Deep dark burgundy/purple.


And Bradford Pears should NEVER be used anywhere for any reason... EVER!!  Sweet gums - same thing!

[carltonplace]

And Bradford Pears should NEVER be used anywhere for any reason... EVER!!  Sweet gums - same thing!

Also Ailanthus (Tree of Heaven) or as I call it Tree from Hell.

Disagree on sweet gum tree, other than the seeds they are very nice trees.

[rebound]

And Bradford Pears should NEVER be used anywhere for any reason... EVER!!  Sweet gums - same thing!

Bradford Pears...  Good Lord...    When I built my house about 10 years ago (on an acre, with no previous landscaping, etc.) I hired a guy to come in and make some suggestions and give me some drawings.   He suggested some Bradford Pears in my front yard.   I paid him, but politely said that I would no longer need his services.    (Went with Maples in front yard a year later.  Beautiful trees today.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

Also Ailanthus (Tree of Heaven) or as I call it Tree from Hell.

Disagree on sweet gum tree, other than the seeds they are very nice trees.

I love sweet gums for their look, but they get too big for the typical postage stamp yard.  As do most oaks...  

Notice, I don't mention seeds, 'cause they don't bother me on any tree, but some don't like the sweet gum balls and many don't like acorns.  I planted a "Chip and Dale" acorn in the backyard about 20 years ago and now it is way too big.  Burr Oak - these are the trees at Mohawk Park that have the golf ball size acorns....that's where I got it.  Geez that tree is big!!

Silver Maples are too brittle and self-destruct after about 25 years.  Red Maple is better choice for the home landscape - if ya just gotta have maple!  I am going to plant some sugar maples just to see what happens....

Also, getting ready to get some resistant American Chestnut to see if they will thrive this far west.  Joplin seems to be about as far as they normally do well....but I gotta know...!!  And that is way west of native range.   Restoration Chestnut 1.0 is available...kind of pricey per seed, and a long wait, but will be trying that one.  This would be nice for Mohawk Park, too!!

http://www.acf.org/

[Conan71]

MC found a redbud volunteer growing from seed in one of our pots.  When we moved to the new house a few months back, she transplanted that little sapling and it's now four feet tall.  It's very happy in it's new spot where an older tree was wiped out apparently during the icepocalypse in '07.

[TheArtist]

Yes, most sidewalks are way to narrow and streets too wide in many areas of our downtown.  I still lament what they did to Boston Ave.  The sidewalks there could have and should have been much wider.  One of my favorite urban trees is the London Plane Tree.  But yes, it is wise to give them some space, not because they necessarily need it for they do quite well in confined spaces, but for their tendency to "take" any extra space they can find. I looked this tree up for I think it is one of the really large street trees I saw often and admired in, London.

[heironymouspasparagus]

MC found a redbud volunteer growing from seed in one of our pots.  When we moved to the new house a few months back, she transplanted that little sapling and it's now four feet tall.  It's very happy in it's new spot where an older tree was wiped out apparently during the icepocalypse in '07.

The question you must ask yourself is how high do you want the lowest branches to be - as in able to walk under the canopy to mow?  Couple more years and you will need to prune if want that higher.

They are fast growing and in 5 years you will look back in wonder at how big it is!

We get dozens a year like that and about every 5 to 8 years I have to go around digging them out - back yard has a huge oak (the Burr) and a massive ash (not Autumn purple) tree in a space of 60 x 45.  Way too much tree!   Gonna cut them down soon and mill them into lumber for kitchen cabinets.  And some of it for the table that Artist has - gonna copy that one!

[rdj]

I won't stand by while my thread gets hijacked. I simply won't.

I got your thread hijack right here: