Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[Conan71]

And in the meantime, Tulsa County announces they will be using $500,000 in park funds to keep the jail operating:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/tulsa-county-to-use-park-funds-to-keep-jail-operating/article_58bf53da-de5a-5dc2-9522-678bc71f2933.html

Three weeks after the Tulsa County parks director recommended closing three county swimming pools, county officials on Tuesday took $500,000 from the Parks Department reserve fund to keep the Tulsa Jail operating through June.

The $500,000 was part of an $800,000 transfer approved by the county Budget Board to the jail fund. The remaining $300,000 will be drawn from the county's property insurance deductible fund.

So far this fiscal year, the Budget Board has provided $2 million from the county's general fund to cover revenue shortfalls at the jail. The general fund is funded primarily through property taxes.

The jail's fiscal year 2015 budget is $29 million. But overtime pay, employee raises, and increased medical and food costs have put the estimated cost of running the jail this year at $31 million.

"They had a shortage of employees, so every detention officer was mandated to work (12-hour shifts) two days a week ... when they first started the year," said county Fiscal Officer Tom Gerard. "Then they backed it down to one day out of the week, and now there is no mandatory overtime because they hired a bunch of new people.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Some more info Cannon, for the first 10 years approximately, the only access was from I-44 to HWY 75 South, or from Jenks on Elwood going north from 96th Street. There was no Riverparks Trail and no bridge at 71st Street to cross the river so it was quite remote.

[Ibanez]

I had kind of forgotten about Turkey Mountain's prior reputation.  But I live here in the late 80's and recall that was very much the reputation.  (And River Parks had it's share of that aspect as well.)

I thought I'd do a quick Google and came up with a couple of entries:  (There were more, but I forgot to get out of my work VPN and so did not explore...)

Police running "stang" on Turkey Mountain:
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?112400-TPD-running-quot-stang-quot-up-on-Turkey-Mountain&s=fa05d55241aa2031c5db320e7400b017

Doctor Arrested On Sexual Battery Charges:
http://www.topix.com/forum/tulsa/T4ERPVMS1NAN05G27

Sex on the pedestrian bridge, especially on the top, used to be a big deal.


Or so I've heard.......

[sgrizzle]

Didn't someone propose a Native American museum nearby a few years ago?

They did, was supposed to be on the east side closer to the river. It was a Vision 2025 project. Don't remember any petitions to stop it, but lack of funding did that anyway.

[guido911]

Other than taking a simplistic shot at Conan, are you suggesting that he himself would have been in position to buy this land several years ago, prior to the usage change from agriculture (or similar) to commercial?    If so, he's way more connected than I imagined.   Also, the vast majority of people seem to not have even been aware until recently that commercialization of the property was even a real possibility.  But there were groups out there (the Y, Kaiser, even the city of Tulsa) that either did or should have had their attention on this, and could have actually done something.    

Conan's a big boy and can take care of himself. Plus, if you noticed that little emoticon that went alongside my post, you will see (I know he did) that I WAS FREAKIN KIDDING. But I am truly grateful this forum has its own internet bodyguard around to help. We can all rest easy.

[Breadburner]

Sex on the pedestrian bridge, especially on the top, used to be a big deal.


Or so I've heard.......

They did change the name a few years back from "Gobbler's Knob" to Turkey Mountain......

[guido911]

They did change the name a few years back from "Gobbler's Knob" to Turkey Mountain......

[AngieB]

They did change the name a few years back from "Gobbler's Knob" to Turkey Mountain......

True. But in Arkansas. 

[rdj]

There was lack of vision to be sure. Chandler was protected by the county long before it was public knowledge as a cool place. And there were people who knew this property's value as a buffer for TM. But keep in mind that its only been the last decade that TM was overtly managed by RPA. We visited the area with my kids back in the 80's and it was plenty of rugged fun but had lots of signs of crime, drugs and sex and few amenities. It (the buffer area OM wants to use) was owned and for sale by GOCO at the time ....but that's another story.

I believe the nearby Park View apartments and the difficulty of development held up its commercial sale, but the county, the city, foundations, authorities....all dropped the ball.

Lack of vision?  Tulsa?  Never!!  I say, NEVER!!!

[AquaMan]

I understand and share your frustration with Tulsa, but as Conan pointed out there were people with some vision but there was little execution in the intervening 25 years. Bubenik saw the potential. Along with vision you have to have follow-up from other folks willing to commit funds, time, credibility and make public conversation.

[Conan71]

From monitoring the PRC meeting yesterday, I can say that INCOG and the city appreciate the gravity of what Simon is attempting to do and where they are attempting to do it. There are a few things they have to provide for clarification or more detail prior to this going to the full TMAPC on March 18.  I was seated next to John Dionis and Jessica Fields from Simon at the meeting and I got a chuckle when Tony Russell from Channel 6 showed up with a camera.  Dionis asked me: "Did you call them?"  "No John, I thought you called them!"

Simon, thus far has avoided the local media unless it has been their circus they invited them to.  They refused to comment yesterday and last week when the YMCA finally went public that they were not at all happy with the development.

Here are items that came up (please note that I am interchanging INCOG and city comments/inquiries as "city"):

-Simon has completed the traffic, geotechnical, topographical, and enviro studies.  They have a plan for the 61st St. bridge but absolutely no answer for additional traffic on 61st heading east to Elwood then down Elwood Hill.  I do believe these would be part of the public record and I am looking into it.

-The city is concerned about the lighting standards they will use and if they really can minimize light pollution toward the Y and the wilderness to the east.

-The city expressed concern about the quality of run off water which will run off into Mooser Creek.  It does not sound like all the engineering has been completed for the storm water system, but Simon's engineer explained some of the natural filtration process they intend to use.  Still, filtering the run off from over a million square feet of impermeable surface sounds like a daunting task.  Again, that's not my area of expertise.  Simon seems to reply to many things with: "We've done this over 80 times with our outlet malls, we haven't gotten this far by not learning something every time."  Basically, "Trust us to do the right thing."

-The city does recognize that Turkey Mountain has regional and national prominence as a tourist draw.  They want to make sure Simon understands this and will incorporate as many methods to respect this.  I think they may have even referred to it as making it a bigger draw.

-The city admonished Simon that their planned bridge over 61st Street will have to respect the SW Tulsa small area plan which called for a pedestrian-friendly bridge to connect Turkey Mountain to the neighboring areas to the west.  Simon had proposed a 4' sidewalk on the north side of the bridge, I believe the city will require a minimum of 6'.  There was something in the SAP about assuring equestrian access from the Union Ave. corridor to Turkey Mountain.  I'm not sure a 6' pedestrian lane will cut it in that case.

-The city has expressed concerns about pedestrian safety in the parking areas and circulator road.  Obviously, this is an auto-centric project with pedestrian features once you are on-site.  Any consideration to pedestrian access to the entrance of the site appears to be an afterthought.  The city is demanding a bus shelter for public transit access.

-The city also wants better clarification on how this project can link to the trails and consider the future use and demand for the trails.  The city recognizes there is increasing interest in the recreation area.  Simon has been reluctant to offer a concession for a trailhead and some parking spaces when pressed by INCOG.  Simon said they were going to contact GKFF about GKFF providing additional parking and trail access from their property across from the pipeline trail.  I told Simon's reps tearing up more wilderness on the adjacent land would not be received warmly and sharing some of their 1800-2000 parking spaces would be a better gesture.

Lest anyone thinks I'm being ungrateful about the parking situation, this was an issue which was not only stipulated from the beginning, it apparently was Simon's own stipulation.  I know INCOG has pressed the issue as well so it's not just us petulant 18 year old BMX riders who don't have jobs and live in our parent's basements.

[AquaMan]

It may be their loss prevention people holding up the use of the parking area for public trail use. Not only would RPA want to be protected with a hefty policy adding them as addl. insured,  but OM could be on the hook for a myriad of law suits. Having GKFF take that burden would work for them I'm sure. Whatever, they need to include that in their costs or take a hike. In fact, just take the hike anyway.

[Conan71]

Major breaking news on the proposed mall development. 

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/public-meeting-set-on-proposed-outlet-mall-near-turkey-mountain/article_6c8e12e2-75c2-5ee2-aa42-4abb0862fe6b.html

Public meeting set on proposed outlet mall near Turkey Mountain

Many of the city councilors who hold the fate of a proposed outlet mall near Turkey Mountain in their hands aren't thrilled with the location or how the project has been handled.

At least two are on record as saying they could not support Tulsa Premium Outlets in its proposed location on the corner of U.S. 75 and West 61st Street, and another has scheduled a public meeting on the proposal.
The meeting, arranged by Councilor Jeannie Cue, will be held at 6:30 p.m. March 17 at the Marriott Tulsa Hotel Southern Hills, 1902 E. 71 St.
"I want (the developer) to answer the questions that all concerned residents have," Cue said. "We want to get their input because we have not heard a public comment from them on their plans."

That meeting will be held the day before the developer of the mall, Simon Property Group, is scheduled to present its rezoning application to the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission.

The commission is a recommending body. The City Council will have the final say on whether the rezoning request is approved or rejected.

Cue, who represents the district where the mall would be built, said her constituents have generally been supportive of the project, but that the overwhelming majority of people she's heard from are opposed to it.

"I have been getting numerous emails from all over Tulsa County and the surrounding area who are not in favor of it," Cue said.

She is the only councilor to hear from Simon, and that wasn't until Friday. Still, she has plenty of unanswered questions.

"I would like to know the cost (to the city)," Cue said. "And have they done a study of the infrastructure needs? What are they asking, because this has not been discussed with the council on what their actual ask is of the city."
Les Morris, director of public relations for Simon, on Friday provided a list of organizations the company has met with to discuss its project.
They include River Parks, the YMCA, Tulsa Urban Wildlife Coalition, Saint Francis Tulsa Tough, Lee's Bikes and Tatur Racing as well other users of Turkey Mountain.
Simon also has met with ODOT, various utility companies, and city Engineering and Planning Commission staff. It also plans to meet with other city councilors before the company goes before the Planning Commission, Morris said in an email.
Clay Bird, director of the Mayor's Office of Economic Development, said he believes Simon is reaching out to interested parties.

"To the best of my knowledge and from what they've told me and what I've heard from other groups, they are," Bird said.

Simon, owner of Woodland Hills Mall, announced plans to construct the upscale outlet mall last year.

It would cover more than 48 acres of private property and include more than 350,000 square feet of leasable space, according to project plans. The only entrance to the mall would be off 61st Street.

The proposal has drawn criticism from Turkey Mountain enthusiasts who are concerned the mall would encroach on trails and spoil the pristine wilderness setting.

Council Chairman Phil Lakin said he and his family have spent countless hours exploring the wilderness area.

"I will always do what I can to support smart development because it's good for our citizens and government services," said Lakin "But this development, in its present form, seems to unnecessarily encroach on a highly unique Tulsa treasure."

Lakin is CEO of the Tulsa Community Foundation. The foundation is affiliated with the George Kaiser Family Foundation, which owns 139 acres on Turkey Mountain.
Councilor Anna America said she would love to see Tulsa get an outlet mall — and the sales-tax revenue that comes with it — but that it shouldn't be built in its proposed location.
"It's an absolute asset for Tulsa," America said. "I would love to see this mall in Tulsa — just somewhere else."

America, like other councilors, has heard from constituents concerned about how the proposed mall would affect Turkey Mountain. She said she shares those concerns, but is also troubled by the prospect of the city's providing tax incentives for public infrastructure needed for the project.

Bird has said previously that the city has had discussions with Simon about creating a Tax Increment Finance District to fund the work.

TIFs allow developers to repay government entities for the construction of public infrastructure related to their projects, often using sales- and property-tax collections.

America said she would rather see a TIF used in another part of town, given that Tulsa Premium Outlets would be built a mile north of Tulsa Hills Mall, which was built using a TIF.

"We have used it in that area," America said. "I want to be more judicious about where we use those."

Councilor G.T. Bynum said his experience has shown that developers who reach out to the parties affected by a project are the ones whose projects succeed.

"On this proposal, on something this controversial, the first I heard of any public outreach was in the last few days after plans had already been submitted to the Planning Commission," Bynum said. "And I have yet to hear from a single Tulsan who likes the proposal. I am keeping an open mind until we see what the Planning Commission recommends, but am so far not very impressed by the approach."

[Breadburner]

This deal needs to be shitcanned in this location....Any councilor that approves this needs to be shitcanned as welll.......

[Ibanez]

I wish they would abandon this area as the proposed site. There are plenty of areas along 75 they can build if that is really where they want to be? Lots of empty land around 75 & 67 (151st street) that would be much better suited to something like this.