Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[Red Arrow]

I wish they would abandon this area as the proposed site. There are plenty of areas along 75 they can build if that is really where they want to be? Lots of empty land around 75 & 67 (151st street) that would be much better suited to something like this.

Simon would probably view that as too far from Tulsa.

[Conan71]

I wish they would abandon this area as the proposed site. There are plenty of areas along 75 they can build if that is really where they want to be? Lots of empty land around 75 & 67 (151st street) that would be much better suited to something like this.

Too far off I-44 for their purposes.

Certainly they would get business from Okmulgee and points south, but the real draw is being adjacent to a major interstate or interstate spur like 244.

That's why all three proposed projects are located on or near I-44.  Simon has already invested considerable amounts in engineering and studies for this site, I think they are all in or all out on this one.  An alternate site does not seem to be a reality.

Personally, I'd suggest the city jump on the Horizon bandwagon or the city will end up losing out to the Cherokees.  Imagine what a windfall $4-$6 million a year in new sales tax revenue would mean to a community the size of Catoosa.

[RecycleMichael]

I wish they would abandon this area as the proposed site.

The other three corners of that intersection are all undeveloped. Any of the other three would be embraced by most everybody.

[Ibanez]

The other three corners of that intersection are all undeveloped. Any of the other three would be embraced by most everybody.

Any idea on who owns the land on those other 3 corners and if a sale might be possible as an alternative?

[Conan71]

Any idea on who owns the land on those other 3 corners and if a sale might be possible as an alternative?

Sharon King Davis or one of her RE trusts owns commercial land just South of Parkview Terrace Apartments facing 61st.  The land doesn't have enough acreage for such a development.  The area north of Parkview is Bales Park which is city-owned and out of play.  The land south of that- between Union and 75 is in the McGeehee trust and apparently is for sale according to someone I've spoken with.  Part of that has a commercial corridor re-zone across from the entrance to Page Belcher.  This is the property residents chased off Lindsey development from about 1 1/2 years ago.  The council canned an apartment complex there.  I don't think neighbors would be friendly to the idea of a mall.

I've heard Simon did not like the site on the west side of 75 because highway 75 drainage was directed there and they didn't want the headache of managing it and their additional run off.  I don't understand the issue, how does Simon plan to manage over 1 million square feet of impermeable surface and channel it in an orderly means to Mooser Creek from a site which has slopes up to 29% grade now?

I'm running on fumes here and don't have time to access my land maps but the McGeehee trust also owns land on the east side of along 75 south of 61st and north of the Spine Hospital.  Their land is bordered by land the Siegfried Companies owns to the east.  Simon said that land was available as well.

I've had discussions with people in the know who say there is land in the area north of Tulsa Hills near the Spine Hospital which would be cheaper to develop and has much of the infrastructure they need already in place thanks to the Tulsa Hills.  Again, the prize is I-44 visibility, it does not exist at 71st St.  It's well over the hill (historic Turkey Mountain to be exact) from 44 and not visible enough.

If Tulsa wants the sales tax benefit of an outlet mall, they need to jump in with the Horizon project or face losing out to Catoosa for this deal.  I honestly don't see Simon pulling this off. I believe most council members understand how valuable an undeveloped Turkey Mountain is.

[Conan71]

Here are important dates if you are for or against the mall development. 

Public forums:

March 12- Southwest Tulsa Chamber of Commerce public forum, open to all citizens of Tulsa.  Riverfield Country Day School (time TBA)
March 16- Zarrow Library hosted by Simon Properties, open only to District 2 residents
March 17- Tulsa Southern Hills Marriott, public forum hosted by District 2 councilor, Jeannie Cue.  I believe this is open to all citizens, not just D-2.

Also of note: Simon's corridor zoning application goes before the TMAPC on March 18. Public comment is encouraged and accepted.  As well a show of concerned citizens is important.  Please note, according to TMAPC guidelines, emails, letters, and petitions are give equal consideration as oral comments in case you cannot attend the meeting. 

[AngieB]

Here are important dates if you are for or against the mall development. 

Public forums:

March 12- Southwest Tulsa Chamber of Commerce public forum, open to all citizens of Tulsa.  Riverfield Country Day School (time TBA)
March 16- Zarrow Library hosted by Simon Properties, open only to District 2 residents
March 17- Tulsa Southern Hills Marriott, public forum hosted by District 2 councilor, Jeannie Cue.  I believe this is open to all citizens, not just D-2.

Also of note: Simon's corridor zoning application goes before the TMAPC on March 18. Public comment is encouraged and accepted.  As well a show of concerned citizens is important.  Please note, according to TMAPC guidelines, emails, letters, and petitions are give equal consideration as oral comments in case you cannot attend the meeting. 

Yes, March 17 is open to the public. As a resident of District 2, I will be attending all three of these meetings. Simon has reportedly confirmed they will have representatives in attendance at Jeannie's meetings on the 16th & 17th.

[carltonplace]

If Tulsa wants the sales tax benefit of an outlet mall, they need to jump in with the Horizon project or face losing out to Catoosa for this deal.  I honestly don't see Simon pulling this off. I believe most council members understand how valuable an undeveloped Turkey Mountain is.

If this falls through (and I think there is enough opposition to kill it) then won't that pretty much make this site untenable for future commercial development?

[Conan71]

If this falls through (and I think there is enough opposition to kill it) then won't that pretty much make this site untenable for future commercial development?

Not necessarily.  It already has corridor, retail, and office light zoning on the land.  As well, on every comp plan I've seen, it's had the blight of commercial development on top of it because it lines the 75 corridor.  I for one don't want to see this threat every year or two.  Anyone got a thick checkbook?



For anyone who wants to see their plan package, here it is:

http://www.tmapc.org/tmapc/Z-7296_Z-7296-SP-1.pdf

[carltonplace]

OK, then is there any commercial land use that would be accepted as not harmful to the wilderness? My guess is that no commercial use would pass the public approval hurdle unless it contributes to the TM experience.

[Conan71]

OK, then is there any commercial land use that would be accepted as not harmful to the wilderness? My guess is that no commercial use would pass the public approval hurdle unless it contributes to the TM experience.

The area on the zoning map where the CS and OL designations are seem to be about 1/5 of the total tract area.  That part was partially cleared a couple of years ago.  Here's one version of what it could be with better in and out horse rig parking, more parking for the rest of the trail users and a west side community or heritage center. 

It would take many moving parts to make a vision like this happen as it would have to come from private donations and GKFF has already committed quite a bit to RPA and has purchased property to the east of this.  But as Phil Lakin is fond of saying, Tulsa is America's most generous city.

Can't remember if I posted this rendering before:

[ZYX]

More From the Tulsa World:

http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/local/city-councilors-hesitant-about-proposed-outlet-mall-near-turkey-mountain/article_6c8e12e2-75c2-5ee2-aa42-4abb0862fe6b.html?mode=jqm

[Breadburner]

So 8 acres of Shopping and 40 acres of parking....

[Conan71]

I'm sorry the hubris of these people is stifling.  They are a walking PR gaffe.

Les Morris, director of public relations for Simon, said the company is well aware of the importance of Turkey Mountain to Tulsans.

"Simon's Premier Outlets team is the best in the world in what they do," he said. "We have ownership interest in 84 premium outlets around the world."
Tulsa needs only to look at the company's work at Woodland Hills Mall to see the way it operates, Morris said.

"Every development project we build — every one of them — we take into account the community's needs," he said. "I want to emphasize this. Every situation. And there is not another Turkey Mountain in another location. We are very, very aware of the situation.

"We want to meet with interested parties; we have met with interested parties; and we will continue to meet with interested parties."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage4/wilderness-group-opposes-proposed-outlet-mall-near-turkey-mountain/article_3659296c-068f-5961-a597-72a956138e06.html

It was this attitude of "We are number one, we have 84 outlets..." has really pissed off every person they have reached out to.  Because it is their way to dodge issues they have simply not thought of or refuse to discuss.  They even dropped this line at the INCOG meeting last week after trying to impress everyone in the room that they liked Burnco BBQ.

And there is not another Turkey Mountain in another location is the best reason not to build on Turkey Mountain.

Here's photos from the WHM parking lot this morning:

Great work Simon! Keep it up!

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm sorry the hubris of these people is stifling.  They are a walking PR gaffe.

Here's photos from the WHM parking lot this morning:

Great work Simon! Keep it up!

In fairness - and I am not defending Simon, 'cause I have made it very obvious how bad I think they are - that is also the picture of ALL the main highways around Tulsa area, and many of the main streets.  This town has turned into one big dumpster where people just throw their trash out anywhere/anytime.  WHM is just more of the same.