Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[LandArchPoke]

An Official Announcement Is Made on a Planned Outlet Mall in West Tulsa

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/official-announcement-made-planned-outlet-mall-west-tulsa

The proposed architecture for this is butt ugly.

Wonder why they haven't released a site plan yet? If they are negotiating with tenants they have one...

I can tell from the rendering though this will be similar to the plan of the OKC outlets, inward facing retail in a square surrounded by a sea of parking lots. Way to go Simon, keep on thinking inside the box. In 5 years when outlet shopping tanks and goes out of trend we will have destroyed a section of one of our biggest natural gems in the city with a 50% vacant POS strip mall.

[Conan71]

There's a site plan on one of the other media sites, might have been Channel 2.  Simon has to observe a buffer zone on the edges of its property where it abuts the Y and the private land to the east of it.  There's still people trying to stop the development all together, but there's also another group taking the approach of "if this happens" they are planning to work with Simon to get some trail work done in the buffer zone.  International Mountain Bicycling Association has interest in helping on this part.

One thing not addressed in the site plan is what they plan to do with the outdated infrastructure to get people in and out of their mall.  One proposal I've been told is an extension of Olympia Ave. north from Tulsa Hills through the property the Siegfrieds own just south of this development.  

Today's announcement was a dog and pony show for the city and something they can show potential tenants.  They are still a ways off from turning any dirt.

This is not what good development looks like, but as long as we are dependent on sales tax for the bulk of our city's operating budget, we are whores to bad development.

[YoungTulsan]

I hope there's a place to park.

What will the runoff and drainage ramifications be for that square mile of parking?

[RecycleMichael]

At least it won't have any of those dangerous sidewalks.

[LandArchPoke]

There's a site plan on one of the other media sites, might have been Channel 2.  Simon has to observe a buffer zone on the edges of its property where it abuts the Y and the private land to the east of it.  There's still people trying to stop the development all together, but there's also another group taking the approach of "if this happens" they are planning to work with Simon to get some trail work done in the buffer zone.  International Mountain Bicycling Association has interest in helping on this part.

One thing not addressed in the site plan is what they plan to do with the outdated infrastructure to get people in and out of their mall.  One proposal I've been told is an extension of Olympia Ave. north from Tulsa Hills through the property the Siegfrieds own just south of this development.  

Today's announcement was a dog and pony show for the city and something they can show potential tenants.  They are still a ways off from turning any dirt.

This is not what good development looks like, but as long as we are dependent on sales tax for the bulk of our city's operating budget, we are whores to bad development.

I saw this on Channel 2 right after I posted my comment.

Ironically, looks like Simon doesn't even know where Tulsa is located...



Lawton... Tulsa, same thing. Only 3 hours and 150+ miles off.

If TIF money is going into this development we really need to seek a high value for tax payers investment. Retail rents in Tulsa are very high for land on construction costs. As I would imagine they'll be charging over $30.00 NNN per square foot similar to the other Tulsa Hills area development, we need to seek better use of this land. Simon could easily replace the surface parking lots with a parking garage and open the outlet retail front to the streets and build bike lanes into the development and embrace the trails and bikers. Our city leadership isn't brave enough to seek more innovative design.. it's a shame really because the odds are that this is the development that will happen. Simon controls the vast majority of outlet centers in North America and they have the pull with tenants to land them at their development over any other competitor.   

[Conan71]

And, as usual, the city and county pay for study after study of what smart development looks like, then we completely ignore it.  Here's an excerpt from the 2004 Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan, commissioned by INCOG:

"Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness Area occupies one of the most prominent locations along the river corridor and represents a unique opportunity for substantial urban wilderness in close proximity to the heart of metropolitan Tulsa. The park should be expanded to the extent possible through the acquisition of adjacent undeveloped property and preserved in perpetuity as an urban wilderness/open space area, Development within the park should be limited to uses complementary to this great natural resource, such as hiking, equestrian trails and stables, environmental education and related uses."

http://riverprojectstulsa.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Phase-1-Vision-Plan-Report-INCOG-final.pdf

I've already drafted a letter to councilors.

[Conan71]

I hope there's a place to park.

What will the runoff and drainage ramifications be for that square mile of parking?

There could be severe ramifications if the engineering is incorrect.  Ron Flannagan attended one of our preservation meetings, he's an expert on the subject and was responsible for this report on the Mooser Creek watershed where this flows into.  There could be flooding of the Y property as well as the industrial and commercial developments which back up to Mooser Creek to the south of I-44 and east of Hwy 75 if done incorrectly.  It also removes some of the natural filtration that the dirt, rocks, trees, and grasses provide now.  So basically, you get a fresh shot of oil, antifreeze, and road grime right into he Arkansas River about a mile or so down stream.

http://www.rdflanagan.com/mooser/mooser.pdf

[LandArchPoke]

And, as usual, the city and county pay for study after study of what smart development looks like, then we completely ignore it.  Here's an excerpt from the 2004 Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan, commissioned by INCOG:

http://riverprojectstulsa.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Phase-1-Vision-Plan-Report-INCOG-final.pdf

I've already drafted a letter to councilors.

Planning is little more than lip service in Tulsa.

In other news Saks OFF Fifth, Oklahoma City's outlet anchor, is closing effective Jan. 5th

http://www.koco.com/news/anchor-store-at-outlet-shoppes-closing/30076462

So please City of Tulsa, let's throw millions in subsidies for an outlet mall on top of the most sensitive nature areas in Tulsa County, that will be largely vacant in 5 years.

[Townsend]

So please City of Tulsa, let's throw millions in subsidies for an outlet mall on top of the most sensitive nature areas in Tulsa County, that will be largely vacant in 5 years.

It will be busy as Hell for at least the first 4 months.

[Ibanez]

Planning is little more than lip service in Tulsa.

In other news Saks OFF Fifth, Oklahoma City's outlet anchor, is closing effective Jan. 5th

http://www.koco.com/news/anchor-store-at-outlet-shoppes-closing/30076462

So please City of Tulsa, let's throw millions in subsidies for an outlet mall on top of the most sensitive nature areas in Tulsa County, that will be largely vacant in 5 years.

Not surprised. That Saks was a trainwreck. My wife talked me into going to the outlet twice and both times we went in that store it looked like 1000 kids amped up on Kool Aid and Pixie Sticks tore through it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not surprised. That Saks was a trainwreck. My wife talked me into going to the outlet twice and both times we went in that store it looked like 1000 kids amped up on Kool Aid and Pixie Sticks tore through it.

Yum!!  Pixie Sticks!!  Or just a package of Kool-Aid with a teaspoon of sugar mixed in with it in the pouch!!

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Planning is little more than lip service in Tulsa.

In other news Saks OFF Fifth, Oklahoma City's outlet anchor, is closing effective Jan. 5th

http://www.koco.com/news/anchor-store-at-outlet-shoppes-closing/30076462

So please City of Tulsa, let's throw millions in subsidies for an outlet mall on top of the most sensitive nature areas in Tulsa County, that will be largely vacant in 5 years.

Saks is closing a number of stores.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/saks-fifth-avenue-to-close-store-in-the-shops-at-riverside-1.1113309

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2013/12/04/saks-jobs-aberdeen-layoffs.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/blog/real_estate/2014/12/saks-off-5th-cut-50-jobs-minneapolis-store-closure.html

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=293025;topic=20701.180;sesc=99d51c0d381fafe5f80e1d5c1b7d3b3a

[Conan71]

My wife made an interesting comment on "outlet" malls.  She mentioned she used to shop at Tanger in Stroud.  Back then, an outlet store truly was last season's unsold clothing which was parceled out to outlets from a company's primary stores.  Stores like Mikasa sold items which might have had minor paint flaws, small chips, things of that nature.  It was true bargain shopping if you were willing to buy items which were slightly irregular or didn't follow the most up-to-date fashion trends.

Now, an outlet store is simply slightly different goods than a retailer sells in it's primary stores and the pricing is not really any better than what you'd find in a company's regular stores.  The last two outlet malls I've been to were the Shoppes in OKC and one in Georgetown, Tx. just north of Austin.  I honestly didn't find the pricing that impressive and certainly not worth a trip specifically to go shop an outlet.  Shopping isn't really my thing to start with, so my opinion of them might be pretty jaded well beyond the location Simon chose for this.

[rebound]

... Now, an outlet store is simply slightly different goods than a retailer sells in it's primary stores and the pricing is not really any better than what you'd find in a company's regular stores. 
...

That is exactly right.  And with the increasing rise of internet shopping, the allure of outlet malls continues to dwindle.  The era of "undiscovered bargains" at outlet malls, or anywhere else really, is over.

[Conan71]

That is exactly right.  And with the increasing rise of internet shopping, the allure of outlet malls continues to dwindle.  The era of "undiscovered bargains" at outlet malls, or anywhere else really, is over.

If you read through some industry trade papers, they would try to lead people to believe otherwise.  Certainly, open air shopping is supplanting the enclosed malls if you compare the two, it looks like great growth for outlets.  At the same time, many people find the convenience of online shopping pretty irresistible and that segment keeps growing.  I can see the need for terrestrial clothing and shoe stores so you get something which fits right the first time.  As far as the other craptastic stores in outlet malls, I really don't see the point when you could get the same item for less online and have it within a day or three depending on where it ships from.