Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[Conan71]

In fairness - and I am not defending Simon, 'cause I have made it very obvious how bad I think they are - that is also the picture of ALL the main highways around Tulsa area, and many of the main streets.  This town has turned into one big dumpster where people just throw their trash out anywhere/anytime.  WHM is just more of the same.

I get your point, but they shouldn't crow about their sterling record at an existing property when they obviously don't make lot maintenance a huge priority.

Failure to contain trash that will blow into the Y camp and the wilderness to the east will be a big issue.  For a fact, they have no plan in place to address it and won't until they have on site management in place.  Tulsa is windy Fall, Winter, Spring, and Summer.  There's already trash blowing in to TM property from Tulsa Hills tenants over a mile away.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I get your point, but they shouldn't crow about their sterling record at an existing property when they obviously don't make lot maintenance a huge priority.

Failure to contain trash that will blow into the Y camp and the wilderness to the east will be a big issue.  For a fact, they have no plan in place to address it and won't until they have on site management in place.  Tulsa is windy Fall, Winter, Spring, and Summer.  There's already trash blowing in to TM property from Tulsa Hills tenants over a mile away.

Yep!!  100%


Simon is the one that allowed Eastland to be overrun by the "gangsters/thugs" (is that politically incorrect enough to piss off someone...I hope!) in the area, letting it turn into a pigsty, then closing it down after all the buying customers were run off.  Maybe Eastland was competition enough to WHM that they wanted to eliminate it intentionally.

[Breadburner]

Tulsa Says.....GTFOOM Simon.....

[Conan71]

TNF has turned out to be a good archival source of information.  I'd long since forgotten about the whole TIF issue at Tulsa Hills way back when.  Pretty funny to go back and read some of the puffery from Chris Medlock. Wonder what ever happened to his over-inflated ego?

http://www.tulsaurbanwildernesscoalition.org/?p=670

TUWC: THE VIEW FROM OUR GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS COORDINATOR
MARCH 6, 2015 TULSAUWC

I had lunch yesterday with a couple of other TUWC founding members and one of them made a statement that really struck me about that general area of west Tulsa becoming "retailed-out" while we are proposing to subtract from our most important urban resource: green space.

That conversation and another I had recently with a long-time west Tulsa resident led me back to the genesis of Tulsa Hills.

In early 2006 developers of Tulsa Hills, Sooner Investments of Oklahoma City, had run into unanticipated challenges in developing their site. They came back to the city of Tulsa requesting a TIF district to finance the additional costs they had uncovered. If they could not secure the additional funding, they said they woud have to cancel the project.

I for one, have thought of Tulsa Hills being a great and timely project for west Tulsa and an appropriate instance where a TIF rewarded the area with better infrastructure, more modern amenities, it has driven more home construction, and Tulsa Hills has been a proven regional draw for sales tax revenue.

I've been told before by a developer knowledgeable with Tulsa Hills and the proposed Simon site that the Simon site has even more challenges for site prep. So what happens when Simon decides to spring similar news on the city council after rushing their plan through in an attempt to thwart Horizon Group's bid for an outlet mall and Simon's proposal ends up costing even more in TIF funding than Horizon's would have?

There's a serious irony in this whole development which has been lost to the sands of time. In 2006, then city councilor, Bill Christiansen said he might not be able to support this TIF as he was worried Woodland Hills' tax collection potential might be undermined by this development. Never mind that Tulsa Hills' offerings and Woodland Hills' were somewhat different. It would take a whole lot of convincing otherwise to prove to me that Simon was not lobbying the council against that TIF at the time.

In speaking to a long-time west Tulsa resident who backed the Tulsa Hills development, she related to me that Simon was openly sharing concern about how Tulsa Hills might damage their business six miles to the east. She sees a real irony that now Simon wants to piggyback off the success Tulsa Hills has had and go to the city with their hand out now looking for a TIF.

Finally, I came across a blog post from Michael Bates' Batesline blog which said "A study of retail opportunities within the City of Tulsa identified this site (Tulsa Hills) and one near I-44 and 129th East Avenue as the optimum locations for a new major retail development."

West Tulsa has gotten a windfall of related retail and residential development that is rapidly taxing the Highway 75 corridor. With all the new development to open within the next year between 71st and Jenks, the additional traffic through the I-44 and 75 interchange will be a nightmare.

When will it be east Tulsa's turn for a development that will change its fortunes? The proposed Horizon outlet mall development also includes pad space for additional restaurant and retail space. This is the type of development that could lead an economic renaissance for east Tulsa that is long overdue.

[patric]

If you want to see how some developers view the area around Turkey Mountain, drive south a bit to the Perryman Ranch and look at some of the ugliest, treeless cookie-cutter development going on. 
They are at this time bulldozing right up to the front lawn of the ranch.

[Breadburner]

If you want to see how some developers view the area around Turkey Mountain, drive south a bit to the Perryman Ranch and look at some of the ugliest, treeless cookie-cutter development going on. 
They are at this time bulldozing right up to the front lawn of the ranch.

Why didn't you buy it.......

[Townsend]

Why didn't you buy it.......

That's some darn fine contributing.  Darn fine

[rebound]

That's some darn fine contributing.  Darn fine

Troll level turned to 11...

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's some darn fine contributing.  Darn fine

6th grade public school education level....

And actually, coming back to my senses, probably not public schools - they are much better than that at 6th grade.

[Conan71]

There is a forum this Thursday night at 6pm presented by the SW Tulsa Chamber along with Riverfield Country Day School.  Representatives in forestry, economic development, environmental issues, neighborhoods, and recreation will be on the panel.  The presentation will allow all sides of the issue to be heard.

The Forum limited to D-2 residents only on March 16 and the public forum at Southern Hills Marriott on March 17 apparently only have representatives from Simon Properties and Clay Bird's office.  Representatives from Simon and Clay Bird declined to attend the Riverfield forum.

[guido911]

I just read Simon is breaking ground tomorrow.



Oh wait, I meant I am watching Breaking Bad tomorrow. Sorry for the confusion.

[guido911]

If you want to see how some developers view the area around Turkey Mountain, drive south a bit to the Perryman Ranch and look at some of the ugliest, treeless cookie-cutter development going on. 
They are at this time bulldozing right up to the front lawn of the ranch.

You mean homes where people might be living? Give us a picture of your house so we can critique its appearance smart guy.

[guido911]

Troll level turned to 11...

BB is just being an activist. We need more of that around here. 

[Breadburner]

That's some darn fine contributing.  Darn fine

You been on vacation....

[sgrizzle]

I just read Simon is breaking ground tomorrow.



Oh wait, I meant I am watching Breaking Bad tomorrow. Sorry for the confusion.

Turkey Mountain dies in the end.