Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[Red Arrow]

It does. At one point I have both a Pike Pass and Toll Tag on my car (NXTX version) and was being double charged each time I went through a toll both in OK or TX lol.

Texas is completely plate pay now too. There's definitely no reason why plate pay here should cost that much more other than what you said is it's probably an excuse to over charge people.

I have portable Pike Passes (suction cups rather than direct stick to windshield) to switch between 2 axle and 3 axle when towing a trailer.  I keep the "other" Pike Pass in two static control bags for PC cards. Seems to work fine.  I've never been double charged.

[Red Arrow]

Texas is completely plate pay now too.

No Toll Tags, even for local people?  If I drive on a TX toll road with my Pike Pass would I get double charged, once for the Plate Pay and once via my Pike Pass?

[dbacksfan 2.0]

CA has Plate Pay for the 7 toll bridges in the Bay Area but not for the toll roads and express lanes IIUC. I asked about that and was told that if you cross a bridge it uses whichever one you have assigned to your car. They still have cash lanes on the bridges and the toll roads, but the express lanes are transponder only at this time, this was about a year ago. The Golden Gate is the only bridge that is tag or transponder only, if they had cash lanes traffic would back up halfway to Santa Rosa because of the amount of traffic.  was also told they have no plans at the time for their transponders to work in other states.

If you use the Plate Pay for bridges you have three options. Option 1 is put money into an account, Option 2 attach a credit card, or Option 3 have them invoice you. If you go the invoice route there is an additional $1.00 charge for invoicing. The Plate Pay is good for people that are driving their own cars, you can setup an account and travel the Bay Area without issues.

Update: I went back and checked and now all of the bridges are transponder or Plate Pay, they no longer have attendants in the booths.

Example: The Bay Bridge from Oakland into SF.

https://goo.gl/maps/7tQK61VkdYXf8B5a8

[swake]

No Toll Tags, even for local people?  If I drive on a TX toll road with my Pike Pass would I get double charged, once for the Plate Pay and once via my Pike Pass?

No, they have toll tags, and they are interoperable with Pike Pass. But there are no toll collection machines or people, if you don't have a toll tag, you pay the full plate pay price, but I don't think it's that much higher in Texas like it is here.

[swake]

CA has Plate Pay for the 7 toll bridges in the Bay Area but not for the toll roads and express lanes IIUC. I asked about that and was told that if you cross a bridge it uses whichever one you have assigned to your car. They still have cash lanes on the bridges and the toll roads, but the express lanes are transponder only at this time, this was about a year ago. The Golden Gate is the only bridge that is tag or transponder only, if they had cash lanes traffic would back up halfway to Santa Rosa because of the amount of traffic.  was also told they have no plans at the time for their transponders to work in other states.

If you use the Plate Pay for bridges you have three options. Option 1 is put money into an account, Option 2 attach a credit card, or Option 3 have them invoice you. If you go the invoice route there is an additional $1.00 charge for invoicing. The Plate Pay is good for people that are driving their own cars, you can setup an account and travel the Bay Area without issues.

Update: I went back and checked and now all of the bridges are transponder or Plate Pay, they no longer have attendants in the booths.

Example: The Bay Bridge from Oakland into SF.

https://goo.gl/maps/7tQK61VkdYXf8B5a8

Last time I was on the Golden Gate they did take cash, The Bay Bridge as well. Traffic did back up forever with no fast drive through toll tag lanes that you could zip through. The bridges had one fast lane only and that was a HOV/Taxi/Bus lane, and just the one. That was 6-7 years ago, so maybe it has changed.

The New Jersey Turnpike is like this too with the terrible back up and lines. It's crazy, or was.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Last time I was on the Golden Gate they did take cash, The Bay Bridge as well. Traffic did back up forever with no fast drive through toll tag lanes that you could zip through. The bridges had one fast lane only and that was a HOV/Taxi/Bus lane, and just the one. That was 6-7 years ago, so maybe it has changed.

The New Jersey Turnpike is like this too with the terrible back up and lines. It's crazy, or was.

I was in the Bay Area in December of 2019 and GG was unmanned, but the other bridges did take cash. It could be that because of Covid an attempt to cut down on the spread, they rolled out the cashless toll bridges (Plate Pay) early to reduce exposure to the virus.

Info update:

h 20, 2020 at 4:00 p.m. | UPDATED: March 21, 2020 at 7:09 a.m.
The Bay Bridge and other crossings around the region are going cashless as part of efforts to contain the spread of the coronavirus, officials said.

Starting at midnight Friday, cash toll booths will no longer be staffed, and drivers in those lanes will be expected to continue through them without stopping to pay, CalTrans and the Bay Area Toll Authority announced.

Nothing is changing for drivers who have FasTrak — you'll still have your account charged the usual toll.

If you don't have a FasTrak account, cameras will capture a photo of your license plate and you'll be mailed a bill for the crossing. It will come in an alarming "Toll Violation Notice" envelope, but don't worry: the authority is suspending the usual fees, and you'll only be charged for the toll.

Officials said the change came at Gov. Gavin Newsom's request to protect toll collectors and the drivers they come into contact with each day.

It will apply at the Antioch, Benicia-Martinez, Carquinez, Dumbarton, Richmond-San Rafael and San Mateo-Hayward bridges, as well as the Bay Bridge. The Golden Gate Bridge has been cash-free since 2013.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/20/bay-area-bridges-go-cash-free-to-contain-coronavirus/

Here is a site about PlatePass and all of the states and toll roads/bridges that use it and the ones that have gone cashless.

https://www.platepass.com/locations/

[LandArchPoke]

No Toll Tags, even for local people?  If I drive on a TX toll road with my Pike Pass would I get double charged, once for the Plate Pay and once via my Pike Pass?

Like what swake said - they send you an actual TollTag thing like PikePass to put in your window still. My problem was I had both a PikePass and TollTag up on my windshield and didn't think about the fact it would read both when you went through any pay areas. I ended up canceling PikePass because the TollTag was how I accessed my office parking garage in Dallas and was the easiest way to pay for parking at DFW and Love.

So, if you ever happen to have both just make sure one is stored somewhere it can't be scanned.

If you don't have TollTag or PikePass and have an Oklahoma tag, they'll still send you a bill in the mail wherever your car is registered. You used to be able to drive the plate pay turnpikes in Texas free if you had an out of state tag. I think they even back billed people a lot when they got access to the Oklahoma database a few years back. They've decommissioned all toll booth areas here and it's 100% plate pay - if you have a TollTag it'll pull it out of your account or if you don't you just get bills in the mail. 

[swake]

Like what swake said - they send you an actual TollTag thing like PikePass to put in your window still. My problem was I had both a PikePass and TollTag up on my windshield and didn't think about the fact it would read both when you went through any pay areas. I ended up canceling PikePass because the TollTag was how I accessed my office parking garage in Dallas and was the easiest way to pay for parking at DFW and Love.

So, if you ever happen to have both just make sure one is stored somewhere it can't be scanned.

If you don't have TollTag or PikePass and have an Oklahoma tag, they'll still send you a bill in the mail wherever your car is registered. You used to be able to drive the plate pay turnpikes in Texas free if you had an out of state tag. I think they even back billed people a lot when they got access to the Oklahoma database a few years back. They've decommissioned all toll booth areas here and it's 100% plate pay - if you have a TollTag it'll pull it out of your account or if you don't you just get bills in the mail. 

Texas and Oklahoma do it the right way, in that you can drive through poll tracking locations at full speed. The other turnpike states I've been in somewhat recently; Pennsylvania, Jersey and California, still have the toll booths you have to drive through even with a toll tag, so you have to come to a full stop, or almost, even with a tag creating bad traffic congestion. I've been on the Kansas Turnpike too, but it doesn't have a lot of traffic and I can't recall what they do, other than they also take Pike Pass. 

[DTowner]

I do not know about Simon's overall financial health, but didn't it and another mall company buy JC Penny in bankruptcy to prop them up as anchor stores in their malls?  Seems like an expensive fix to buy a failing retailer just to keep them as a tenant.  I have long assumed that when COVID issues subsided this project would start back up but that it will never be anything like originally proposed.

Pretty much the Tulsa way - big, exciting plan interrupted by economic calamity that ends in a disappointing something but not anything special outcome.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I do not know about Simon's overall financial health, but didn't it and another mall company buy JC Penny in bankruptcy to prop them up as anchor stores in their malls?  Seems like an expensive fix to buy a failing retailer just to keep them as a tenant.  I have long assumed that when COVID issues subsided this project would start back up but that it will never be anything like originally proposed.

Pretty much the Tulsa way - big, exciting plan interrupted by economic calamity that ends in a disappointing something but not anything special outcome.

12/7/2020

J.C. Penney said Monday that it has officially completed its sale to mall landlords Simon and Brookfield, allowing it to exit Chapter 11.

"Today is an exciting day for our company, as we have accomplished our goal of putting J.C. Penney on a secure path for the future as a private company so that we can continue to serve our loyal customers," Jill Soltau, chief executive officer of Penney said in a statement.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/2020/12/07/jc-penney-sale-to-landlords-simon-and-brookfield-is-completed/

From 3/16/2021

Simon Property Group — the nation's biggest mall owner — said in February that its fourth-quarter revenue dropped by 24% on a year-over-year basis to $1.1 billion.

However, some analysts think Simon — with its portfolio of A-rated malls and a healthy balance sheet — will benefit as distressed malls operated by its rivals close their doors. The company is also expected to see gains from new additions like hotels and luxury residences.

"Unfortunately there are a lot of centers that don't fit that high profile and that have lost their competitive edge," said Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Goldfarb. "The thing about Simon is they've been really focused on maintaining it, and that's both been through a combination of culling the lower productive centers as well as making sure that they keep investing in their top centers."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/heres-how-americas-malls-are-changing.html

[LandArchPoke]

I do not know about Simon's overall financial health, but didn't it and another mall company buy JC Penny in bankruptcy to prop them up as anchor stores in their malls?  Seems like an expensive fix to buy a failing retailer just to keep them as a tenant.  I have long assumed that when COVID issues subsided this project would start back up but that it will never be anything like originally proposed.

Pretty much the Tulsa way - big, exciting plan interrupted by economic calamity that ends in a disappointing something but not anything special outcome.

They've also bought out several other retailers (Aeropostale, Forever 21, Brooks Brothers, and Lucky Brand)

Part of the reason why their debt is quickly ballooning

[DTowner]

They've also bought out several other retailers (Aeropostale, Forever 21, Brooks Brothers, and Lucky Brand)

Yikes!  Being both landlord and tenant is an interesting business model.

[Oil Capital]

FWIW, during 2020, Simon's total liabilities increased about $3 Billion (10.77%).  Their total assets increased about $3.5 Billion (11.38%).  Total Equity increased about $0.5 Billion (19.27%).

[swake]

Yikes!  Being both landlord and tenant is an interesting business model.

It's likely a temporary purchase that kinda makes sense. Saving the stores keeps Simon's malls healthy(er) and occupied. Plus, they are buying these chains at fire sale prices before they go under. Simon is even likely themselves a large debt holder for these chains. If the chain goes under, Simon gets nothing. In this case, Simon gets the business and once Covid is over, Simon can spin off the stores at a nice profit once retail is normal again. If it is ever normal again.

[shavethewhales]

Wow, Simon is doing a lot better than I thought then. I was speaking mostly from a speculative manner earlier when I described them as broke. I know a lot of their malls are basically half shuttered if not fully closed, so I assumed they were bleeding cash.

I guess a few star properties is enough. Woodland Hills is pretty special in the current environment. Still think adding this outlet mall would be a net benefit to them though.