REI

[cannon_fodder]

Id love to get with someone with some artistic ability and make a proposed site plan that utilizes the assets the area has to offer.

My vision: a large floor-really-tall ceiling glass bay window/wall that faces the river with just a sitting/rest/shade/water station separating it from the trail. From inside the store you look out on hikers bikers, and volleyball players enjoying cold water stations, maybe a mister or two, and some shade --- enjoying products and activities supported by REI. You are also overlooking the river, which might soon be filled with REI kayaks and paddle boats.  From outside, you look in on new shiny bikes, running shoes, or athletic gear that you simply must have! Coming from Tulsa Hills east on 71st you would see the glass curtain wall of REI greeting you all the way down the hill and across the bridge... looks cool, lets stop there and check it out. Throw in a few short-term lockers (like airports), including BIKE lockers (or check at customer service) and trail users would be able to stop and shop along their way. Need a new water bottle? Thinking about getting new running shoes because the ones you are wearing are hurting your feet?  DONE!

Move the loading docks and dumpsters to the south side of the building (small fence as view blocker from main parking lot) and allow the rear of the building to EMBRACE the trail. There is no visibility from the South Side anyway.

Then make the expansive parking lot embrace the uses of the area. Add some tree lined medians along one side... then add a path along that trail. You could use it to "test ride" equipment easy enough for a short loop or two.

Position the north side of the building closer to 71st, that's the real estate youre paying for anyway. Leave a green space and room for the trail/sidewalk to head to riverside, but there is no need for a parking lot there. Make it pretty and park a climbing wall, camping equipment, or just move some merchandise to display there from time to time (Canoes, bikes, etc.). Or just leave it green. You know, like a space that people who enjoy the outdoors (and outdoor equipment) might gravitate towards

This isn't rocket science. I'm a lowly attorney with no design qualifications. My only insight is that I use the trails and I go to sporting good stores. COMBINE THE TWO!

If I plan on driving to a big box stores that sells sporting goods crap Dicks, academy, and Gainder Mtn have that covered already. I'm resigned myself that we are trading park land for retail. I'm resigned myself to believe "river development" just means selling parks at a bargain rate so developers can make money, and fully expect a big push to sell more parkland as soon as possible (Riverparks West, well, all river frontage really). But in this instance, there is NO reason why REI couldn't insist the developer make this place attractive to their desired customers.

DO IT. Use this idea for free. Message me and ask me for more great ideas. All free, I don't care. Make it work.

[DowntownDan]

Tulsa World today reports that the volleyball courts will be rebuilt on-site, south of their current location, as part of the development, with significance improvements.  Hopefully this means that they are listening to the public and rethinking the site plan overall.

[carltonplace]

I saw Dewey on Saturday and it took all of my self control not to ask him to explain how he can ask Tulsans for hundreds of millions to put water in the river and at the same time support suburban development that face away from the river and block the view of the river while paving the bank for parking.

I don't think he can be this dense.

[PonderInc]

Just to help people understand the scale of this thing.  Here's someone walking along an REI building in Dallas. 

Now picture this wall 10 feet away from the trail.  That's what the site plan shows. Not enough room to plant real trees.  So close that the heat from the afternoon sun should reflect nicely onto the trail users.

(Yes, there will be some windows along the northern edge of the west wall.  Then there's 150' + of 30' tall blank wall.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

Longtime reader, first time poster. 

Unless you enjoy sitting in traffic, standing in lines, dealing with subpar customer services, and being disappointed when a store doesn't have what you want, my guess is that this box store will be long empty by then.

Nothing original here and pretty much just echoes the sentiments of most on here but its my first message board post of all time so I had to get my feet wet at some point.

Welcome!  Always good to have new input!


It's a dog eat dog world here...just don't be wearing Milk-Bone underwear...!!

[heironymouspasparagus]

This isn't rocket science. I'm a lowly attorney with no design qualifications. My only insight is that I use the trails and I go to sporting good stores. COMBINE THE TWO!

If I plan on driving to a big box stores that sells sporting goods crap Dicks, academy, and Gainder Mtn have that covered already. I'm resigned myself that we are trading park land for retail. I'm resigned myself to believe "river development" just means selling parks at a bargain rate so developers can make money, and fully expect a big push to sell more parkland as soon as possible (Riverparks West, well, all river frontage really). But in this instance, there is NO reason why REI couldn't insist the developer make this place attractive to their desired customers.

DO IT. Use this idea for free. Message me and ask me for more great ideas. All free, I don't care. Make it work.

And yet, even as lowly attorney, you understand perfectly...it isn't about preserving/enhancing/improving quality of life for Tulsa and Tulsans.  It's about growth for growth's sake development to allow certain people to benefit exclusively.

[Markk]

Just to help people understand the scale of this thing.  Here's someone walking along an REI building in Dallas. 

Now picture this wall 10 feet away from the trail.  That's what the site plan shows. Not enough room to plant real trees.  So close that the heat from the afternoon sun should reflect nicely onto the trail users.

(Yes, there will be some windows along the northern edge of the west wall.  Then there's 150' + of 30' tall blank wall.)

If REI builds that design along the trail, that will be a level of crapulence unmatched since the Office Depot and its wall of shame went in at 15 & Lewis.  A wall of glass and shade features would sure look more inviting--both from the river and toward the river. 

[Breadburner]

Here is another one.....

[PonderInc]

And so this happened...

(From an article on the KWGS website) http://publicradiotulsa.org/#stream/0
The city parks department had proposed moving the courts from 71st and Riverside a mile north to Johnson Park. Mayor's Office of Economic Development Director Clay Bird said instead they'll move south of the land sold into Helmerich Park.

"And then also try to identify what amenities need to go with the volleyball courts, maybe look at putting in some parking, getting some cost estimates on that," Bird said.

I think I'm finally starting to understand the phrase "bird brained."

Remember just a few short weeks ago how the Dallas developer insisted that the REI PUD required almost 600 parking spaces TO ACCOMMODATE ALL THOSE PARK AND TRAIL USERS?? This was their justification for adding something like 250 extra parking spaces to the development plan.

There's a huge blob of excess parking on the south end of this development... Which would put it, gosh, maybe near the volleyball courts.

Of course, since the city sold the land for some beads and a mirror, we won't technically have legal right to park there. I guess that's something the TMAPC should have considered when they were discussing their gentlemen's agreement with the dudes from Dallas.

[Conan71]

Two problems:
1. As a city, Tulsa is too insecure to demand value and high quality development. Over and over again, we get raped, and thank the rapists for their interest. (Other cities insist that developers meet their standards, and the developers do it.)  Unsurprisingly, demanding value creates better places, which are--shocking!--in greater demand and more valuable than mediocre places!

2. Too many of our leaders and power brokers are apparently so dense that they can't see or understand the difference between quality development and a bunch of junk.  Maybe they are wowed by the fictional tales the developers tell about all the economic growth that will occur (if those stories were true, Tulsa would be flooded with excess revenues!).  Maybe they lack the perception and imagination to envision something better.  Maybe their travel experience is limited to interstate corridors, where the lowest common denominator surrounds them everywhere they go.  Maybe they can't tell the difference between Maple Ridge and Woodland Hills Mall.  I have no idea.

But I am getting so tired of it. 

When you act like a whore, you will be treated like a whore.

Ascribing to the tired old saw of "A rising tide raises all ships", better development helps lift the value of all properties in proximity of it.  What benefit does a taxing authority get when the value of properties rise?  Hmmmm??

Here is our applied method: Hand over incentives to any retailer the city sees fit just so we can have the cool factor of COSTCO, Trader Joe's, etc. come to town.  Never mind that most local people will forget about their arrival not long after they arrive and consumers go back into their usual rut.  The city's ED department can use a $2 million discretionary fund to attract new retailers and it is my understanding this was used to lure COSTCO and I was led to believe this same mechanism would have been used, in part, to help lure SPG to level part of Turkey Mountain.

The net result is the city essentially gives up revenue to make slab-sided, ugly development more profitable for developers.  In the meantime, Tulsa's growth rate is still abysmal and it's an easily proven metric that we don't grow at a rapid enough pace for a municipality which must reap 65% of its operating budget from sales tax.  If there is no substantial growth, you wallow in an over-extended budget or cut necessary services to shore up the bottom line.

In a nutshell: We promulgate crappy development with no apparent forethought about the total net return to the city's coffers we just think sales tax collection is a panacea.  Retail development is not nearly the tourism draw as are great arts, entertainment, and recreation.  That is an immutable fact.  You need to have enough reasons for people to come and stay for a few days or a week without retail being in the forefront of their minds. 

FFS, you can build an outlet mall or name retailer anywhere.  In order for that to equate to real sales tax growth, you need to have other reasons for people to come and stay for a week or a lifetime- those are the real assets we need for new retail development to really pay us back.  If you have those assets in the first place, retailers won't sit around waiting for handouts to move in, it will already make great financial sense to them and they will happily abide by the terms you set in place for them to neatly assimilate into the local scene.

[Hayduke]

Just to help people understand the scale of this thing.  Here's someone walking along an REI building in Dallas. 

Now picture this wall 10 feet away from the trail.  That's what the site plan shows. Not enough room to plant real trees.  So close that the heat from the afternoon sun should reflect nicely onto the trail users.

(Yes, there will be some windows along the northern edge of the west wall.  Then there's 150' + of 30' tall blank wall.)

That wall is going to look great decorated with spray painted images of male genitalia and gang tags. Seriously though, why would REI put a store on the river and next to the trails and not incorporate them into the design of the store?  I just can't imagine them doing that.  If it was Kohl's, that's one thing.  But it's an outdoor recreation store, catering to the kind of people using the trails and maybe someday the river.  It would just be stupid to not have a back patio, a place to lock up bikes, a back entrance, windows facing the river, perhaps a coffee shop to lure Saturday morning riders/runners into the store, an area to test out equipment, etc.  I get they want to open as cheap as possible but they also want customers, outdoorsy customers. Wishful thinking.

[swake]

Looks like they plan to add some monkey grass and a couple of trees to the wall.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Looks like they plan to add some monkey grass and a couple of trees to the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0lzyUOjvFw

[dsjeffries]

It would just be stupid to not have a back patio, a place to lock up bikes, a back entrance, windows facing the river, perhaps a coffee shop to lure Saturday morning riders/runners into the store, an area to test out equipment, etc.  I get they want to open as cheap as possible but they also want customers, outdoorsy customers. Wishful thinking.

You mean like this REI in Denver?

[patric]

[/quote]

That wall is going to look great decorated with spray painted images of male genitalia and gang tags.

Just think of it as a lighted community billboard.