REI

[AquaMan]

I wasn't calling them old! But was more referring to the old grumpy attitude one might have towards the young wimper snappers who frequent that area. Tally hoe! Got my knickers in a wad!


Gotcha.. So it was the hippies! They by default hate all the elderly and yuppies unless you have a righteous beard.

I understand about the pseudo hippies. No TRUE Scotsman!

Just kidding about all of this, I'm just giving you a hard time!

I once had a righteous beard. It was great fun when eating a Big Mac. Women swooned.

No ill will here. 

[Townsend]

The Group Seeking to Preserve Helmerich Park looks to the Trust for Public Land for Help

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/group-seeking-preserve-helmerich-park-looks-trust-public-land-help

Those seeking to save Helmerich Park at 71st and Riverside ask the Trust for Public Land for help.

Ernest Cook is Senior Vice-President of the Trust and oversees the national division. He says he's here on a fact-finding mission.

Cook says he hasn't met with city officials about the pending sale of the land for commercial development, but in general his organization opposes the loss of park lands for commercial use.

He admits it's not always a black and white issue, saying some compatible uses may be okay. At first look though, he doesn't believe that's the case with the Helmerich plan.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Tulsa city councilors on Dallas tour question REI site concept

DALLAS — An overnight City Council trip to Dallas wrapped up Wednesday at an REI store, where several officials questioned the overall design of a controversial Tulsa project that is presumed to include a branch of the sporting-goods store.
The two-day trip included tours of several open-air restaurant designs that excited councilors and a presentation with Fort Worth's Trinity River Vision Authority about its more-than $900 million downtown-river project that had officials calling it "inspiring."
But the Recreational Equipment Inc., or REI, tour had a different effect.
Councilor Anna America said plans for an open-air restaurant at the southwest corner of 71st Street and Riverside Drive is something she can support, but she said the look at REI made her think more work was needed on the proposal.
"Honestly, I do think we need to put some more thought into the proposal that's been brought forward on 71st and Riverside," America said. "I haven't seen a full-blown presentation on it, but from what I know of that and what I've learned today, we can do better. And I expect we will."
One of the lessons America and other councilors heard Wednesday morning about river development was to "slow down."
"We'll take what we learned here — the good and the bad — and get input from the community and come up with something Tulsans will be proud of and embrace," America said.
The Wednesday morning presentation had J.D. Granger, executive director of the Trinity River Vision Authority, encouraging the councilors to slow down and carefully plan how they want to approach development along Tulsa's river.
"There's going to be variances — otherwise it's boring," Granger said. "But set your standard first."
America emphasized that she and other councilors want REI to come to Tulsa, but she said her concern is in regard to that location along the river.
"I haven't heard a single person not excited about REI," America said to the company representatives at Wednesday's meeting. "We want you guys in Tulsa."
The Tulsa Public Facilities Authority has an agreement to sell a nine-acre section of Helmerich Park to allow for the development, but the agreement is on hold while a lawsuit challenging the sale is decided.
Preservationists filed the lawsuit against the city to protect the area as green space.
Questions from councilors were aimed at developer Don Bouvier, president of UCR Development, in the middle of an REI store in a north-Dallas-area-shopping center that includes other big-box stores.
Councilor Connie Dodson questioned the Tulsa site's density plan.
Councilor Blake Ewing questioned why it wasn't more oriented to the river.
Councilor Jeannie Cue questioned the economic impact of a new sporting goods store competing with existing sporting goods stores.
Bouvier said he hopes the discussion continues, but he said the scope of the project he's brought to the table is only able to adjust so much before the tenants he's building for pull out for being in unproven territory.
Janet Hopkins, REI retail director, said the company's more-than 140 locations all have a similar design except for the store's five "flagship" locations, including a well-known Denver store. Tulsa's proposed location would not be the "flagship" concept.
"I saw some good questions being asked," Bouvier said. "I think they truly want to understand. There's been a lot of talk and of course a lot of discussion. I realize it's tough sometimes to imagine and evaluate something that's not there and put it into a perspective."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/tulsa-city-councilors-on-dallas-tour-question-rei-site-concept/article_f57a9ba9-fb9b-50d6-868f-3383e207df05.html

[LandArchPoke]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/tulsa-city-councilors-on-dallas-tour-question-rei-site-concept/article_f57a9ba9-fb9b-50d6-868f-3383e207df05.html

Sounds like some of them are starting to get it, like Anna America. I don't get Connie Dodsons thought, she thinks the proposal is too dense? How can it be any less dense? Add more parking lots  ?

[RecycleMichael]

I thought the developer's comments were idiotic.

...but he said the scope of the project he's brought to the table is only able to adjust so much before the tenants he's building for pull out for being in unproven territory."

The Dallas developer says Tulsa is "unproven territory."

WTH?

[saintnicster]

I thought the developer's comments were idiotic.

...but he said the scope of the project he's brought to the table is only able to adjust so much before the tenants he's building for pull out for being in unproven territory."

The Dallas developer says Tulsa is "unproven territory."

WTH?

Or.... or maybe it's the specific area of Tulsa?

[patric]

Sounds like some of them are starting to get it, like Anna America. I don't get Connie Dodsons thought, she thinks the proposal is too dense? How can it be any less dense? Add more parking lots  ?

So the council skipped the part about whether or not its legal or moral to sell a donated park to a commercial developer, and moved on to picking the color scheme for the new strip mall?

[cannon_fodder]

Or.... or maybe it's the specific area of Tulsa?

No. Basically they are saying "if we can't build a standard big box for REI they will pull out. This site isn't special and we don't give two rats butts about the facing the river or the trail. You take your big box or nothing."

He was more polite than that, but that's what I read into it.

[rebound]

Or.... or maybe it's the specific area of Tulsa?

I think he means "different from other standard developments" I'm sure he has all kinds of numbers to predict traffic and sales, based on other developments.  But if you do something truly unique (which is what I think most of us are looking for here), then it gets harder to predict/assure return.

But what bugs me more is this quote from the article:

"Janet Hopkins, REI retail director, said the company's more-than 140 locations all have a similar design except for the store's five "flagship" locations, including a well-known Denver store. Tulsa's proposed location would not be the "flagship" concept."

Well,  scr#w them, then.  Given the site, if they aren't willing to invest even a little more in doing something beyond a basic cookie-cutter store, then let them go somewhere else.

Also,  does anyone in Tulsa know Jerry Stritzke, the CEO of REI? He's an OSU grad and went to law school at OU, and lived in Tulsa when he practiced law.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-stritzke-60198970

https://news.okstate.edu/articles/jerry-stritzke-says-osu-was-instrumental-his-ascension-top-coach

I would think that one word from Stritzke saying "let's build something cool in Tulsa" would be all we needed to change the entire direction of this thing.

[BKDotCom]

I don't get Connie Dodsons thought, she thinks the proposal is too dense? How can it be any less dense? Add more parking lots  ?

Where did she says it was too dense?

"Councilor Connie Dodson questioned the Tulsa site's density plan."

Given the context of the proposed development, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume assume she doesn't think it's dense enough.

[BKDotCom]

...controversial Tulsa project that is presumed to include a branch of (REI)

"Janet Hopkins, REI retail director, said the company's more-than 140 locations all have a similar design except for the store's five "flagship" locations, including a well-known Denver store. Tulsa's proposed location would not be the "flagship" concept."

Can "we" put and end to the "presumed REI" already?

[DTowner]

But what bugs me more is this quote from the article:

"Janet Hopkins, REI retail director, said the company's more-than 140 locations all have a similar design except for the store's five "flagship" locations, including a well-known Denver store. Tulsa's proposed location would not be the "flagship" concept."

There is nothing special about nearly all the REI stores because there is nothing special about REI.  Is there a single product they sell that you cannot get somewhere that is already in Tulsa (other than the REI brand of the same merchandise)?  If they were building at one of the strip centers at Riverside & Delaware or scattered throughout Tulsa, I wouldn't care about their attitude or lack of imagination. 

[Conan71]

I've preached this since last summer to everyone who keeps romanticising about the iconic Denver store:  The majority of REI's stores, including other Colorado stores, suck.  They are a retailer.  They care love all about our ideas of aesthetics and they care love all about our park space and distraction to the trails in the area.  I am friends with local shop owners within blocks of this location (bike retailers) who do a great job serving the local community and love the community.  Just go away already, Mr. Dallas developer who reputedly doesn't even have so much as an LOI with REI.

Sorry for the harsh language, but I'm sick and tired of the notion that local retail can't be destination shopping and I'm also sick of the notion that we need to sell out our best spaces in a feeble attempt at sales tax gain.

[LandArchPoke]

So the council skipped the part about whether or not its legal or moral to sell a donated park to a commercial developer, and moved on to picking the color scheme for the new strip mall?

So you think that this park should be preserved 100% the way it is?

I disagree. I think the city should leverage some of the land and build something that adds to the community and the surrounding park. The current proposal does not do that. A strip mall that can be built in anywhere America isn't the solution. We've already eroded away some of the parkland with that suburban apartment complex to the south. Why not build something like this (obviously with less boats)? But, a more urban mixed-use project with ground floor retail and apartments above that actually interacts with the riverfront and trails.



Capture some of the value created through a higher density project to improve the park. Why not build competition level sand volleyball quarts just south of the development that we could host tournaments? Add some gardens, walking trails, pond, etc. so that Helmerich Park actually becomes useable. The current state of that park is terrible. It could be something of high quality and be a south park anchor along the trail with A Gathering Place as the northern park anchor and Turkey Mountain across to the west. Turn Helmerich Park into something like below:











Saying that Helmerich Park is some beacon of parkland that should be preserved in its entirety is a bit disingenuous. You could develop this northern section and south section below the other apartment complex and still have 40 acres of park land (that's not that much smaller than the Gathering Place). Even the Trust for Public Land says compatible uses are ok - the point is to improve public spaces. Helmerich Park is in major need of improvement and as been for decades. If the way to do it is through developing small sections of it into quality development (which the current REI/UCR development proposal is not)? Fine by me.

[TheArtist]

It would be far easier to get something towards that direction if this property remains a park than it will ever have the chance once some strip mall type thing goes on it, imho.