Tulsa County Sheriff shooting of Eric Harris

[cannon_fodder]

Seems like we should have a verdict today. Questions for the jury:

1) Who is the foreman
2) Did the shot kill Eric Harris - if no, not guilty
3) Was it culpable negligence to mistake the .357 magnum for a taser - if no, not guilty
4) What's the sentence

I remain unconvinced by the Defense. By my opinion doesn't matter.

[Ibanez]

To be fair this is Tulsa so someone is probably having to explain to the jurors why the Sheriff's deputy wasn't named Enos, why the person shot wasn't a Duke boy, and that they can't order in food for the jury room from The Boar's Nest.

[Tulsa Zephyr]

Just in...After 3 hours of deliberation, the all-white jury returned with a guilty verdict against Bob Bates...and recommended 4 years in prison.  They could have made a lesser recommendation...

[cannon_fodder]

I'm not surprised by the Guilty verdict, but the 4 year recommendation is the max. That surprises me. Usually indicates that the jury was pissed off.

I wonder if Bate and Brewster were a self reinforcing loop of hyperbole and machismo. Instead of painting him as a sympathetic figure who messed up, they tried to paint him as a hero who did nothing wrong at all. From Brewster's perspective, maybe Bates just doesn't make a good sympathetic figure. All Monday morning quarterbacking at this point, but I'd have to think if you just walked up to 12 people and gave them the basics --- it usually wouldn't come back at the max sentence. Then again, Brewster tends to know what he is doing.

It will be interesting to see if any jurors choose to give interviews.

I'd also love to know what offer was made to Bates before the trial. Maybe the offer was such that he felt he may as well go to trial.

[Conan71]

I'm not surprised by the Guilty verdict, but the 4 year recommendation is the max. That surprises me. Usually indicates that the jury was pissed off.

I wonder if Bate and Brewster were a self reinforcing loop of hyperbole and machismo. Instead of painting him as a sympathetic figure who messed up, they tried to paint him as a hero who did nothing wrong at all. From Brewster's perspective, maybe Bates just doesn't make a good sympathetic figure. All Monday morning quarterbacking at this point, but I'd have to think if you just walked up to 12 people and gave them the basics --- it usually wouldn't come back at the max sentence. Then again, Brewster tends to know what he is doing.

It will be interesting to see if any jurors choose to give interviews.

I'd also love to know what offer was made to Bates before the trial. Maybe the offer was such that he felt he may as well go to trial.

Pretty good analysis, CF.

I'm guessing trying to convince a jury that the gunshot had nothing to do with Harris' death might have pissed off a few people.  I'd also go so far as Bates' sense of entitlement pissed them off as well, that is likely the main reason Brewster didn't want him to testify.

The jury recommendation is just that: a recommendation.  I honestly thought he'd end up with the max fine and a suspended sentence so let's see what happens in the sentencing phase.  Something tells me they will fabricate a health issue Bates' health will come up in the sentencing hearing.

Two things are for certain:  If Brewster is unsuccessful with an appeal, Bates can never legally carry a firearm again and he will lose his insurance license.

[Ed W]

Is the usual process serving a third of the sentence befoe being eligible for parole? That could be a very long 16 months for a pretend policeman in the general population. I'd expect he'd be segregated for his protection.

I'm astonished at some of the pro-Bates comments on FB, as in "he was serving the community" etc. Some people have no moral compass.

[AquaMan]

Yes, I heard one of those remarks this morning, "the guy shouldn't have run!" I explained to him that running isn't a capital felony and he wasn't running when he was shot. He was restrained on his belly with a knee to his neck. Didn't need to be tasered.

[DTowner]

It's hard to know for sure without having heard all the testimony, as opposed to just reading about it in the paper,  But I suspect the coroner and Bates' expert witness (who concluded Harris died of a heart attack, meth and exertion from running from the officers) canceled each other out.  The ER doc testifying that Harris had no blood in his heart when he arrived at the ER is pretty hard to overcome because this is the person who is trying to save the guy's life and could not.  If you try to convince a jury that a gunshot to the chest did not kill someone, you'd better have some pretty clear evidence that is the case.  Otherwise, there is a good chance you will insult the intelligence of the jurors.  I think that is likely what happened here.  Of course, challenging the cause of death and hoping to create some doubt was probably the best defense he could put on.

[swake]

I have a question that's been bothering me lately.

What exactly was Eric Harris' crime here? He was selling a gun. What was criminal about that?

[heironymouspasparagus]

I have a question that's been bothering me lately.

What exactly was Eric Harris' crime here? He was selling a gun. What was criminal about that?

One point was after previous felony - he isn't legally allowed to touch one.

[Conan71]

One point was after previous felony - he isn't legally allowed to touch one.

Being in possession of a firearm while under the influence of meth would be another criminal act.

[swake]

Being in possession of a firearm while under the influence of meth would be another criminal act.

True, but we are running sting operations on that?

[heironymouspasparagus]

True, but we are running sting operations on that?

Was supposed to be a sting on sale of illegal - presumably stolen? - guns.

Yeah, he was a punk who deserved prison time.  Not a capital crime though.

[Conan71]

Was supposed to be a sting on sale of illegal - presumably stolen? - guns.

Yeah, he was a punk who deserved prison time.  Not a capital crime though.

It's unfortunate there are people who really think an injustice was served with Bates' conviction.  One comment from the open mic on KRMG said he did us a favor because Harris was a convicted felon in commission of another felony so Bates did society a favor.

How much more redneck could someone be?

Mentalities like this and the overwhelming stupidity of the Oklahoma legislature make it less and less likely I'll spend my retirement years here.

[cynical]

If even one single juror had felt that way, there would have been no conviction.  How did it happen that all twelve jurors agreed?

Evidence.

We sometimes allow ourselves to get too caught up in the political context of criminal cases, and we attach too much importance to lawyering. In my experience, jurors take their job seriously and want facts and law. Whatever their sympathies may be, if the facts aren't there, they simply won't convict. If the facts are there, they will convict. They typically aren't snowed by fancy dancing by lawyers, even lawyers as good as Brewster. Brewster's reputation and track record was built on facts on his side and factual gaps on the other side. In cases where the facts didn't support his argument, he loses. I think Brewster gave it a good try, but he probably knew that he had a bad case on his hands. I won't criticize him for appealing to traditional views of law enforcement's role in protecting citizens from criminals. it was a good argument, but ineffective in view of the evidence in this case.

The key to the case was when the prosecutor appealed to the jurors' common sense. That is a standard argument, but was well-timed in this case. in essence, he invoked the jurors' BS filters. What is the only version of the facts that makes any sense? Set all ideologies aside. What happened, and why? Bates killed someone who was "no angel," but didn't need or deserve to die. The jury understood that. That gives me hope. Not everything is political. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Too many ideologues lack BS filters. The media used to help maintain BS filters. No more. In this post-modern era, truth depends on your perspective.

It's unfortunate there are people who really think an injustice was served with Bates' conviction.  One comment from the open mic on KRMG said he did us a favor because Harris was a convicted felon in commission of another felony so Bates did society a favor.

How much more redneck could someone be?

Mentalities like this and the overwhelming stupidity of the Oklahoma legislature make it less and less likely I'll spend my retirement years here.