Downtown Development Overview

[carltonplace]

Based on the $50 million the owners of that property would have gotten in the '07 River Tax package I'd think the land cost would be a deal breaker for something like this, but again, I have no clue about Topgolf's business model.

Conan, this site plan shows south of 21st St which is COT owned land...I thinhk you are referring to the Midcontinent land which is north of 21st.

I don't want this downtown...but I still think this is a lazy, shortsighted, weak sauce project to place at the river where the view of downtown is best and where the impound keeps the river full(ish).

Why not "A Gathering place II" at this site and add living and retail?

[AquaMan]

It looks like the map is south of 21st but ends before the concrete plant land at 23rd. Lots of folks get confused with it being 23rd street west of the river. Mid continent is now out of place at that location. Much like the car wash was on Cherry street. Add in the nearby subsidized housing and it's a tough sale for non industrial development.

[SXSW]

Why not "A Gathering place II" at this site and add living and retail?

I like that idea.  It would basically double the size of the River West Festival Park.  Maybe they would be more interested in the COT land south of the bridge.

[DowntownDan]

The 23rd west bank site might work.  Would be nice if they could incorporate a restaurant/cafe/bar abutting the trail.

[Breadburner]

They best put this in South Tulsa.....

[Conan71]

They best put this in South Tulsa.....

Put it where LaFortune is now.  Heh.

[Conan71]

Conan, this site plan shows south of 21st St which is COT owned land...I thinhk you are referring to the Midcontinent land which is north of 21st.

I don't want this downtown...but I still think this is a lazy, shortsighted, weak sauce project to place at the river where the view of downtown is best and where the impound keeps the river full(ish).

Why not "A Gathering place II" at this site and add living and retail?

Nope, look again.  That overlay is on the northernmost part of the concrete plant north of 23rd St., not the COT M & E compound.  Easy to pick out the overflow parking for Riverwest Festival Park on the west side of Jackson.  As well, the entrance to RWFP is aligned with 21st St, that is on the northern boundary of the map.  Pretty fresh image on Google, it shows the improvements underway at RWFP.

[carltonplace]

Nope, look again.  That overlay is on the northernmost part of the concrete plant north of 23rd St., not the COT M & E compound.  Easy to pick out the overflow parking for Riverwest Festival Park on the west side of Jackson.  As well, the entrance to RWFP is aligned with 21st St, that is on the northern boundary of the map.  Pretty fresh image on Google, it shows the improvements underway at RWFP.

Ahh. I see it now. Still, if the Mid Continent lot is in play now then combine this with the COT yard and create AGPFT West as long as we are dreaming.

[Conan71]

I'd rather see Topgolf on the river than downtown and I have to agree with Aqua Man, the concrete plant isn't much of a fit anymore.  I'm assuming it was originally located there as they used to run sand dredges right off that location on the river.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Here is an image of it from September 1967



http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getfile/collection/p16063coll3/id/28/filename/29.pdf

[TeeDub]

Weird...   What is all that stuff in the river?   Oh right, water...

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Even weirder, click on that link and scroll up to downtown. Look at all those buildings!

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Posted this before, here is the site with the USGS maps for Tulsa from 1967.

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2014/03/north-of-downtown-tulsa-1967.html

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I posted this in a new topic. Please let me know if I should delete that and post it here only:

New Hampton Inn & Suites to be built just east of BOK Center at "One Place"

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/new-hampton-inn-suites-to-be-built-just-east-of/article_d6e74d29-1dff-5e2b-b3f0-6ea97786d9e1.html

Physical development on the planned Hampton Inn & Suites at the One Place development just east of the BOK Center will soon break ground.
The nine-story, 125-room hotel will be constructed by Promise Hotels at a cost of $17.3 million, and will be finished by the end of 2016.
The construction site at the northwest corner of Third and Cheyenne is now surrounded by fencing in preparation for construction.
Thursday's construction announcement included speakers Mayor Dewey Bartlett; Mike Neal, president and CEO of the Tulsa Chamber; and Ray Hoyt, President of VisitTulsa.
Promise Hotels is in the process of developing two other hotel projects in downtown Tulsa. One is a $15 million to $16 million, 105-room Holiday Inn Express planned for the southeast corner of Archer Street and Detroit Avenue.

That hotel is now set for 105 rooms and a mid to late-summer construction start date, said, Pete Patel, CEO of Promise Hotels. Because it's a smaller project, construction will go somewhat faster than the Hampton Inn & Suites.
Promise Hotels also announced a $20 million, 134-room Hilton Garden Inn that will wrap around the Oil & Gas Journal building on the southeast corner of Second Street and Cheyenne Avenue.
Physical development on those two hotels has not yet begun.
One Place is a block-sized development that also includes the 17-story One Place Tower occupied by Cimarex Energy Co., and the adjacent, five-story Northwestern Mutual building. Both buildings have retail space on the bottom.
The Hampton Inn announcement follows several other recent announcements of developments in a revitalized Tulsa downtown.
A development dubbed "The Boxyard" was unveiled a month ago for construction at Third Street and Frankfort Avenue. The concept is to stack large cargo containers next to each other and create a retail-oriented environment, along with a few small restaurants and service providers.
Housing projects also are on the way:
The Edge at East Village, a $26 million 162-unit development at 215 S. Greenwood.
The View, a $25 million to $30 million 200-unit development on the southeast corner of Archer Street and Elgin Avenue.
Davenport Urban Lofts, a 24-unit development at 405 N. Main St.
Coliseum Apartments, a 36-unit development at 635 S. Elgin Ave.
Harrington Apartments, a 24-unit development at Eighth and Main Streets.
Additionally, John and Stuart Price of KPM Management have announced they intend to develop 183 units in the TransOK Building at 2 W. Sixth St., the 111 W. Fifth Building and the Adams Building at 403 S. Cheyenne Ave.
Several hotel projects also have focused on downtown.

Lots of new hotels planned downtown. I wonder if they will just siphon business from other parts of town (all the power to them, especially taking in guests who might stay at the BA/I44 interchange) or create new business which otherwise wouldn't come to Tulsa. They will certainly have to compete with each other and existing hotels already downtown. Does anyone have numbers for occupancy rates for any hotels downtown? I

Obviously this would be a great location for people coming in town to go to the BOK center. It is much better use of the parking lot that exists there currently.

There are currently 9 hotels downtown (including the Ambasador) and another 7 in development based on the link in the above article to the previous new downtown hotel announcement:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/yet-another-new-downtown-tulsa-hotel-planned-this-time-near/article_bfcef537-a412-54a2-b211-7a0255d0efe8.html

So after 2016/2017 there will be 16 downtown hotels plus a bed-n-breakfast, not to mention the dozens of Airbnbs in and  around the IDL. I wonder if demand will keep up. I certainly hope so.

[cannon_fodder]

Top Golf Locations are pretty much cookie cutter. Surface parking for 200-400 cars, then 50-60k square feet of inside space, a couple tiers for driving, and a few acres to whack balls into. Here are their locations in Dallas, OKC, Overland Park, Kansas, Chicago, Austin, Houston, Tampa...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Dallas/@32.8691412,-96.7451904,388m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x11aaadd900785a1!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Oklahoma+City/@35.6025536,-97.53443,375m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b21c1aa9fc4a73:0xf8260b12ff14a10a!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Overland+Park/@38.9367136,-94.6464481,718m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x41becfca28099d21!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Chicago/@41.9843218,-87.9956342,686m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x880fb1f660b2e0d1:0x7ed07c7c39099376!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Austin/@30.398256,-97.719166,796m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x8644cc734b862887:0x9fa52087722fe7ad!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Houston+-+Katy/@29.786738,-95.6503265,401m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa341eb692fec7f1e!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Topgolf+Tampa/@27.9295916,-82.3336518,816m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x8716b6986713c1e2!6m1!1e1


Tulsa's will be exactly the same. Msot are on the outskirts of town, the design might vary by having the parking lot go this way or that, but that's it.

I like the idea that it draws in 250,000 people a year. And people looking to go out and do something. Parties, groups, etc. It can also be something that people in town for something else might go do. This is a good thing.

I hate that it is a cookie cutter with acres of surface parking.

It would fit very well at the Fintube site OR the abandon area north of Caines (the "abandoned stairways" area). Areas that are close to "where its at" but wouldn't disrupt the growth of existing areas. It is a good fit, from a purely space consideration, on the concrete plant on the west bank also. While it would be an improvement over the concrete plant - it is a waste of riverfront property and would have no synergy with anything else. Not like they are going to go there, then walk over to BlueRose for a night cap.

It also fits really well on the David L. Moss cite... maybe they want to throw money at it, move the Jail, and build it there?

I'm glad they desire to be near the heart of the City, but it seems out of character for them.

I don't think the East Village cite would be a disaster, probably a better use than semi occupied old factory buildings that are turning to dust. But, like the river location, it seems like a waste of potential.

I'd be happy if it went in the Fin Tube site. Guess I'd wouldn't be thrilled, but I wouldn't be too upset with the other locations on the whole. If it was downtown AND had structure parking I'd be back to being happy. Fintube can have its surface lots...