Davenport Urban Lofts

[Cats Cats Cats]

The lost Ogle is trying to incite some kind of gentrification freak out over this development: http://www.thelostogle.com/2015/06/23/please-build-davenport-lofts-literally-anywhere-else-in-downtown-tulsa/

It really rubs me the wrong way, mostly because of the implication that anyone in Tulsa who can afford a $450k apartment is an old grey haired suburbanite who wants to think they're still hip. The big scare is that proximity to these old geezers will make their precious hipster bar less cool.

I could understand if we were looking at another Trader Joe's situation where old niche businesses were being forced out, but they're just replacing a crappy vacant lot. Of course the street is going to be unrecognizable in a few years, it's prime real estate currently occupied by crappy metal buildings, empty lots, and truck parking. I don't think this counts as gentrification if there's barely anything there to begin with.

It is going to end up with them complaining about the noise in the bar. Its like building your house next to a sewage plant and then complaining because it smells.  They were there first.

[Red Arrow]

It is going to end up with them complaining about the noise in the bar. Its like building your house next to a sewage plant and then complaining because it smells.  They were there first.

Or my favorite, moving in next to an airport and then complaining about airplane noise. 

[LandArchPoke]

The lost Ogle is trying to incite some kind of gentrification freak out over this development: http://www.thelostogle.com/2015/06/23/please-build-davenport-lofts-literally-anywhere-else-in-downtown-tulsa/

It really rubs me the wrong way, mostly because of the implication that anyone in Tulsa who can afford a $450k apartment is an old grey haired suburbanite who wants to think they're still hip. The big scare is that proximity to these old geezers will make their precious hipster bar less cool.

I could understand if we were looking at another Trader Joe's situation where old niche businesses were being forced out, but they're just replacing a crappy vacant lot. Of course the street is going to be unrecognizable in a few years, it's prime real estate currently occupied by crappy metal buildings, empty lots, and truck parking. I don't think this counts as gentrification if there's barely anything there to begin with.

The major problem is these people are in for a treat the first weekend they move in and there's a band playing at Soundpony.

I also lover how she claims "you won't recognize the street in a few year" and "we want nothing more than to blend into the district". You won't, because this will act as a giant dead spot with a parking garage entrance fronting one of Tulsa's fastest growing retail streets. Great job and great design I tell you! You are doing the complete opposite from blending in by breaking up a retail corridor with a huge dead spot with a parking garage entrance fronting the street. Move it to the alley and add street fronting retail and you will be on your way to fitting into the urban fabric of the Brady.

I wouldn't be surprised if this meat the fate of other Tulsa condo developments aimed at empty nesters. It's expensive and these are essentially one bedroom units with a microscopic 2nd bedroom/den. I don't see how many people will be interested in a $450,000 - 1,000 sq. ft. - 1 bedroom unit. You can tell these are being done by someone who doesn't understand the urban market. I cracked up when I saw this comment on Facebook "Leave it to a middle-aged Bixby transplant to screw up downtown. Leave the Brady District alone suburbanites"

There is now a petition on change.org as well started tonight called "Save the Brady Arts District from the Davenport"

https://www.change.org/p/tulsa-city-council-davenport-urban-lofts-development-group-save-the-brady-arts-district-from-the-davenport-e1202c27-ed0b-4559-9151-6f8cecc2a414?recruiter=326694501&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-lg-new_account-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

200+ "signatures" in an hour

[shavethewhales]

^I agree that I'd rather it be retail, but all this talk about how people don't actually want to live near this stuff is the opposite message that we need to be promoting. It's all knee-jerk imaginary worst case scenarios and ignores everything you see happening in awesome cities like KC or Austin. We can talk about encouraging things to be changed or moved around, and how Soundpony and Cain's need to be protected, but the freaking out over slightly richer, potentially older people being around isn't helping anyone.

There are so many things people should be outraged over instead as far as developments are concerned in this city.

[Weatherdemon]

Yea, you won't move there if you don't want to be downtown and around all that now comes with living downtown.

I don't think the Davenport is going to cause any more of a dead spot than the empty lot currently there or whateverthehell business next door that keeps the northbound lanes blocked all day by a rented moving truck.

Nothing screams 'neighborly,''walkability,' and 'development' like a road block all day Mon-Fri. They are the biggest risk to Main Street, not Davenport.

[AdamsHall]

^I agree that I'd rather it be retail, but all this talk about how people don't actually want to live near this stuff is the opposite message that we need to be promoting. It's all knee-jerk imaginary worst case scenarios and ignores everything you see happening in awesome cities like KC or Austin. We can talk about encouraging things to be changed or moved around, and how Soundpony and Cain's need to be protected, but the freaking out over slightly richer, potentially older people being around isn't helping anyone.

There are so many things people should be outraged over instead as far as developments are concerned in this city.

This.  I am not seeing the big problem with this project.  If they use good sound proofing techniques, then I doubt this will be much more noisy than most other apartments.

[Conan71]

Downtown definitely needs more housing options but they may find these lofts a tough sell at $450/ft. especially in an area that is somewhat self- defined as a music and bar area. 

One of the Brady District's assets, IMO, has been it's diversity.  Perhaps the Soundpony & Cains management can ask for a variance on their music since they have been long time staples in the area.  Either that, or as one poster suggested, install appropriate sound proofing and that won't be an issue.  I'd think at $450/ft that is a cost they could factor in rather easily.

If, eventually, SP's landlord decides to do something else and raise the rent, there are other places it could do just as well, they've got a loyal following.

[swake]

Downtown definitely needs more housing options but they may find these lofts a tough sell at $450/ft. especially in an area that is somewhat self- defined as a music and bar area.  

One of the Brady District's assets, IMO, has been it's diversity.  Perhaps the Soundpony & Cains management can ask for a variance on their music since they have been long time staples in the area.  Either that, or as one poster suggested, install appropriate sound proofing and that won't be an issue.  I'd think at $450/ft that is a cost they could factor in rather easily.

If, eventually, SP's landlord decides to do something else and raise the rent, there are other places it could do just as well, they've got a loyal following.

These aren't pricing at $450, it's more like half that. Urban 8 might be closer to $400, but not this one.

[rdj]

NIMBY has hit downtown!  We've FINALLY arrived as America's next great urban center!

[Conan71]

These aren't pricing at $450, it's more like half that. Urban 8 might be closer to $400, but not this one.

The story says $450,000 lofts averaging 1000 sq. ft.  

450,000/1000=450.  Unless I borrowed the Metro Chamber's chronically broken calculator.

/edit, relying on other poster's comments or assertions from the article.  You are correct, sizes are 1800-2700 per the development website, starts at $450,000/unit.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Downtown definitely needs more housing options but they may find these lofts a tough sell at $450/ft. especially in an area that is somewhat self- defined as a music and bar area. 

One of the Brady District's assets, IMO, has been it's diversity.  Perhaps the Soundpony & Cains management can ask for a variance on their music since they have been long time staples in the area.  Either that, or as one poster suggested, install appropriate sound proofing and that won't be an issue.  I'd think at $450/ft that is a cost they could factor in rather easily.

If, eventually, SP's landlord decides to do something else and raise the rent, there are other places it could do just as well, they've got a loyal following.

I think if you build housing next to a bar/concert venue the noise issues should fall back on the builder.  Its easy for a builder to tell you "sure its soundproofed" and do a half assed job.  Unless you get a viewing of an apartment or condo at 1 am on a Sunday ("Saturday" Night) you aren't going to have any idea what it really sounds like.  We all know that isn't going to happen.

[PonderInc]

It's my favorite NIMBY argument ever!  "You shouldn't live hear because we're loud!"

I'm actually sympathetic to the Soundpony's concerns.  The gargantuan scale of these apartments suggests they are catering to folks who may not actually "get" the downtown vibe.  I mean, when your walk-in closet is the size of some studio apartments, you start to wonder...  (insert suburban stereotype here).

Another rule of thumb: Folks who live in half-million dollar homes tend to expect to have their complaints taken seriously.

Remember all those people who bought houses next to Bells Amusement Park, and then complained about Zingo?  Really?  As if you didn't know there was a roller coaster there!  Same with people who buy houses near airports and then complain about the aircraft taking off and landing.
 
Maybe Sound Pony needs to put a big sign on their building that says: "Caution: downtown music scene!  Expect exuberant crowds and loud noise late at night!"  Then, they could provide a map to the "dead" areas of downtown (plenty of acreage available for development of quiet, ginormous apartments) so potential buyers could see their options.

[davideinstein]

Change the ordinance. Keep the development. Easy and proactive compromise.

[carltonplace]

Urban 8 starts at $875K

Really, people who buy these are going to have to drive or walk up to them and it will be hard to miss the CAINS sign or all of the bikes outside of Soundpony or the smell of cigs (or whatever) coming from the back of Soundpony. Anyone moving in here will know what they are getting into. The Davenport is much better than the empty lot...let's find other things to protest.

[DTowner]

It's been a while since I've looked at the issue, but generally a prior use is not a absolute defense to a nuisance complaint - it is merely one of many factors.  I also assume Tulsa's noise ordinances apply to downtown just like everywhere else.  Maybe those have been loosely enforced in this area in the past, but that could change with some new neighbors.

I also think there are a lot of better things to get worked up about than this development.  In the end, the difficulty of selling these at this price, location and design may solve the problem.