Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....

[dbacksfan 2.0]

The demographics are probably the best they can be for upscale retail literally being in the center of some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Tulsa.  It's been interesting to see the office development that has been attracted to the area with Utica Plaza, Utica Place and the new Bumgarner project at 21st & Xanthus.  Outside of downtown and the 61st & Yale area there really isn't another cluster like it with probably close to 1 million SF of office in that square mile.  If you could get a hotel built (long been rumored for the former H&P site at 21st & Utica) and integrate condos and apartments above retail it could really be a vibrant area.  You already have a huge employer (St John) across the street that isn't going anywhere.

I was mainly theorizing that it is a younger affluent shopping mentality, not that any money had left the area. It will always be upscale shopping just different stores. I don't think the St. Francis area will ever be like Utica Square area, I could be wrong.

I also agree that it would be great if Utica Square could reshape itself but not lose the character that it has, and a hotel in the old H&P location would be good, give that corner some life, besides the upper floors would have some good views.

[Oil Capital]

So  . . .  yesterday marked the 5-year anniversary of our learning that Miss Jackson's and Petty's were leaving.  Just thought the occasion should be noted.

It's kind of fun to read back through the thread and note who knew what they were talking about and who was blowing smoke (the latter including, apparently, the management of Utica Square).

[LandArchPoke]

So  . . .  yesterday marked the 5-year anniversary of our learning that Miss Jackson's and Petty's were leaving.  Just thought the occasion should be noted.

It's kind of fun to read back through the thread and note who knew what they were talking about and who was blowing smoke (the latter including, apparently, the management of Utica Square).

It really is a shame they've done nothing with that site. They had several serious tenants wanting the space, this really falls completely on Utica Square management. This is a retail center owned and managed by a Fortune 500 oil business... things like this will happen off and on. H&P has had to deal with a pretty erratic oil market over the last few years, and after Sr. died from what I've heard is there was a bit of in fighting within the family of what to do with things like Utica Square. At one point they were on the verge of selling the center (along with their entire industrial portfolio in Tulsa which they own millions of square feet of warehouses). Their warehouse portfolio does great, but they also hire third party broker/management. They have refused at this point to do that with Utica Square. I do know around this time was when they explored the sell and the optics looked back after the death, and they decided to explore a partnership with a big retail firm or at least bring in third party leasing/management and nothing materialized.

The benefit of local ownership allows for things like J Spencer, The Dolphin, Stonehorse, Polo Grill, Wild Fork, etc. to exist. If someone like Simon, Macerich, Taubaum, or others owned Utica Square, those types of tenants would slowly be replaced by Fogo De Chao's, Del Frisco's, and national chains who can justify double the rent. It's a double edged sword. Hopefully, management has at least learned to not demo buildings without firm construction plans for replacement.

The demographics for Utica Square are by far some of the best of most centers in the central US outside of a small handful like Highland Park Center, NorthPark, Cherry Creek Center, etc. So they could very easily fill the center 2, 3 times over if they really got their act together or brought in a partner with retail expertise. Utica Square sits within a 4 hour drive of 6 million people, so it could easily be a regional high end destination for some retailers that like to have 'flagship' type locations.

[Markk]

Waiting for Breadburner to weigh in.   He has all the answers, even if he's unwilling to share them. 

[TulsaBeMore]

It really is a shame they've done nothing with that site. They had several serious tenants wanting the space, this really falls completely on Utica Square management. This is a retail center owned and managed by a Fortune 500 oil business... things like this will happen off and on. H&P has had to deal with a pretty erratic oil market over the last few years, and after Sr. died from what I've heard is there was a bit of in fighting within the family of what to do with things like Utica Square. At one point they were on the verge of selling the center (along with their entire industrial portfolio in Tulsa which they own millions of square feet of warehouses). Their warehouse portfolio does great, but they also hire third party broker/management. They have refused at this point to do that with Utica Square. I do know around this time was when they explored the sell and the optics looked back after the death, and they decided to explore a partnership with a big retail firm or at least bring in third party leasing/management and nothing materialized.

The benefit of local ownership allows for things like J Spencer, The Dolphin, Stonehorse, Polo Grill, Wild Fork, etc. to exist. If someone like Simon, Macerich, Taubaum, or others owned Utica Square, those types of tenants would slowly be replaced by Fogo De Chao's, Del Frisco's, and national chains who can justify double the rent. It's a double edged sword. Hopefully, management has at least learned to not demo buildings without firm construction plans for replacement.

The demographics for Utica Square are by far some of the best of most centers in the central US outside of a small handful like Highland Park Center, NorthPark, Cherry Creek Center, etc. So they could very easily fill the center 2, 3 times over if they really got their act together or brought in a partner with retail expertise. Utica Square sits within a 4 hour drive of 6 million people, so it could easily be a regional high end destination for some retailers that like to have 'flagship' type locations.

They should sell to or partner with the Bumgarners.  Buy the VAST Bank and Chicos lots currently not part of Utica Square and add a large part of parking lot behind them for an 12 or 20-story office building --- offset the rest of the Spanish/Italian building style overbuilt in the area with a sleek curvy emerald glass multi-tenant building - a local headquarters there --- a bank or whatever.  Build an exquisite 20-story condo tower on top of Sak's parking garage.  Make fancier, but quasi-affordable apartments in a multi-use complex enveloping Flemings and PF Chang to the south.  LL Bean, Urban grocery, restaurant in extreme S.E. corner.  Let the Hanson's put in a 2-story brew pub in the garden area where Starbuck's is. Raise and redo entire strip including Polo Grill - pushing that strip east to the property line and opening up the front of the center with a fancier Polo Grill... open air dining that becomes Walt's ice rink during winter.  Dozens of things could make a huge impact there.  Even a live theater dedicated to Peggy Dow Helmerich.  I've got a plan!  Last time I was there, it seemed the place could use a few million in maintenance work on cracked, buckled sidewalks alone.         

[SXSW]

The landscaping is still well kept and the overall appearance is fine but I agree there needs to be some investment in the sidewalks and new crosswalks especially on the fringes.  The bones are there for a pretty spectacular mixed-use area if there was a vision and commitment by the Helmerich's to do it.  Anytime visitors have been around Utica Square and the surrounding neighborhoods they have said what a gem it is and how lucky Tulsa should be to have this in the middle of the city.

[TulsaBeMore]

The landscaping is still well kept and the overall appearance is fine but I agree there needs to be some investment in the sidewalks and new crosswalks especially on the fringes.  The bones are there for a pretty spectacular mixed-use area if there was a vision and commitment by the Helmerich's to do it.  Anytime visitors have been around Utica Square and the surrounding neighborhoods they have said what a gem it is and how lucky Tulsa should be to have this in the middle of the city.

Could not agree more.  It has the potential to be spectacular.

[TheArtist]

Well obviously it looks like the current ownership does not care or have the "passion/fire in their belly" to make Utica Square into anything better.

So the best hope for better change will be when the ownership changes.

[Conan71]

They should sell to or partner with the Bumgarners.  Buy the VAST Bank and Chicos lots currently not part of Utica Square and add a large part of parking lot behind them for an 12 or 20-story office building --- offset the rest of the Spanish/Italian building style overbuilt in the area with a sleek curvy emerald glass multi-tenant building - a local headquarters there --- a bank or whatever.  Build an exquisite 20-story condo tower on top of Sak's parking garage.  Make fancier, but quasi-affordable apartments in a multi-use complex enveloping Flemings and PF Chang to the south.  LL Bean, Urban grocery, restaurant in extreme S.E. corner.  Let the Hanson's put in a 2-story brew pub in the garden area where Starbuck's is. Raise and redo entire strip including Polo Grill - pushing that strip east to the property line and opening up the front of the center with a fancier Polo Grill... open air dining that becomes Walt's ice rink during winter.  Dozens of things could make a huge impact there.  Even a live theater dedicated to Peggy Dow Helmerich.  I've got a plan!  Last time I was there, it seemed the place could use a few million in maintenance work on cracked, buckled sidewalks alone.         

I was not aware the Chico's and Vast lots were not a part of the Helmerich portfolio there.  I'd always been led to believe that Utica to Yorktown south of 21st was all theirs.  As I recall, Vast Bank was an ARCO station at one point.  There was a QT where Chico's is now and I believe that was a Skelly station until the mid 1970's before that, it was a QT into the 1980's and maybe early '90's. No idea when it got the Chico's make-over.

[Oil Capital]

I was not aware the Chico's and Vast lots were not a part of the Helmerich portfolio there.  I'd always been led to believe that Utica to Yorktown south of 21st was all theirs.  As I recall, Vast Bank was an ARCO station at one point.  There was a QT where Chico's is now and I believe that was a Skelly station until the mid 1970's before that, it was a QT into the 1980's and maybe early '90's. No idea when it got the Chico's make-over.

Yes, and the Chico's lot and the Vast Bank lot are also separately owned.  There have been a lot of tales of feuds among the property owners in the Utica Square area over the years...  Take a close look at the landscaping in front of the east end of the Chico's building.   

[Oil Capital]

Things are hopping at Utica Square!  They've updated their website!!!!

[Oil Capital]

I know 1 of the largest retailers there will be leaving in the next year as they want a much larger space and Utica can't accommodate them.

4 1/2 + years later and . . . who has left Utica because they wanted a much larger space?

[Oil Capital]

I think people will be surprised at the turn over we will see at Utica in the next 1-2 years. It will be for the better though.

Instead, 4 1/2 + years later, there has been very little turnover.

[LandArchPoke]

Instead, 4 1/2 + years later, there has been very little turnover.

Get a life troll. You're really wanting to debate what was going on in 2016? You're really reaching there.

People get on here to have decent conversations about things and you're just on here to pick fights with people, it's really childish and annoying. Go fight with people on the internet somewhere else. Why don't you actually try to add value to a conversation here instead of you're typical BS.

[Oil Capital]

Get a life troll. You're really wanting to debate what was going on in 2016? You're really reaching there.

People get on here to have decent conversations about things and you're just on here to pick fights with people, it's really childish and annoying. Go fight with people on the internet somewhere else. Why don't you actually try to add value to a conversation here instead of you're typical BS.

ROFL   About the response I expected.  I have no desire to debate anything from 2016, just updating matters and exhibiting the veracity (or lack thereof) of statements made.  If you don't like having your nonsense exposed, stop posting nonsense.