Vision Extension - IDL Removal/Demolition

[swake]

I digress to others with obviously more knowledge. I apologize for any offense.

Anyway, what do I know? I'm just a white guy and I have no Cherokee grandmother.

[AquaMan]

White guys have their place. We are soon to be the new minority led by our dear leader Trump.

Whatever happened to the IDL removal/demolition proposal anyway. I thought it had merit.

[Red Arrow]

White guys have their place. We are soon to be the new minority led by our dear leader Trump.

Fixed it.  When we are a minority, we can get freebies from the Government with all the rest of the minorities.  

[Red Arrow]

I know Louis as well. And Margo.
Every white guy claims he has a full blood Cherokee great grandmother. Usually a princess.

Some of my best friends are black Native Americans.   

No measurable N.A. blood in me.  My sister had her DNA checked by one of those ancestry places.  We are about as European as possible.

[ElTurnado]

This is a cool project showing 60 years of change in Urban Oklahoma and Texas.

http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/09/60years/

"60 years has made a big difference in the urban form of American cities. The most rapid change occurred during the mid-century urban renewal period that cleared large tracts of urban land for new highways, parking, and public facilities or housing projects. Fine-grained networks of streets and buildings on small lots were replaced with superblocks and megastructures. While the period did make way for impressive new projects in many cities, many of the scars are still unhealed."

[heironymouspasparagus]

I still say we need canals!! 

[AquaMan]

As one of the players said to me when I suggested that and a few other ideas back during the last V discussions, "you know...nobody has requested that."
No kidding? At least one did. Its like insisting on the low bidder regardless of any other criteria.

Ever watch the movie back in the seventies about the ship sinking and everyone who lived followed the guy who made sense instead of the guy with the stewards uniform?

[Bamboo World]

This is a cool project showing 60 years of change in Urban Oklahoma and Texas.

http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/09/60years/

"60 years has made a big difference in the urban form of American cities. The most rapid change occurred during the mid-century urban renewal period that cleared large tracts of urban land for new highways, parking, and public facilities or housing projects. Fine-grained networks of streets and buildings on small lots were replaced with superblocks and megastructures. While the period did make way for impressive new projects in many cities, many of the scars are still unhealed."

Very interesting.

Thanks for posting!

[heironymouspasparagus]

As one of the players said to me when I suggested that and a few other ideas back during the last V discussions, "you know...nobody has requested that."
No kidding? At least one did. Its like insisting on the low bidder regardless of any other criteria.

That player is lying.  But then, the truth just wouldn't quite fit within the confines of the agenda.  Maybe they don't see a clear path to fiscal enrichment for them and theirs...?

[patric]

As one of the players said to me when I suggested that and a few other ideas back during the last V discussions, "you know...nobody has requested that."
No kidding? At least one did. Its like insisting on the low bidder regardless of any other criteria.

Ever watch the movie back in the seventies about the ship sinking and everyone who lived followed the guy who made sense instead of the guy with the stewards uniform?

What surprises me is what I interpret as the watchdogs on the council coming to a "compromise" that keeps the slush finds intact, or am I just reading it wrong?

[AquaMan]

They did the best they could with what they knew, who was informing them and what their motives were. Like a chef once commented about a fellow chef's cooking, "You'll never get any better than this".

Now we just need to do the voting thing on raising taxes that aren't really being raised by folks who were elected to cut them. My mind is swimming.

[johrasephoenix]

Before moving to Tulsa I lived in Austin and Chicago.  Both of these cities have highways slicing through their downtowns.

In Chicago the highways block off downtown from the neighborhoods in three directions - the north, however, is not cut off.  With time, that area became River North, the Magnificent Mile, and all the most desirable real estate in the city.  The North Side neighborhoods slowly grow denser as you get closer to downtown and seemlessly goes from houses to apartments to skyscrapers.  To the west and south, you get skyscrapers, a wall of interstate, then nothing beyond it.  There is no spillover effect.  Downtown Chicago is growing at an extraordinary pace while the neighborhoods on the near South Side, cut off by I-55 and I-90, languish. 

The same thing in Austin.  Austin's downtown seemlessly blends in to the north, west, and south.  There it gets gradually denser as you transition from the neighborhoods to downtown.  I-35 cuts through the east side of downtown, and for a half century it was a wall.  Downtown development stopped like a wall at I-35.  It's taken the extreme, almost extraordinary development pressures Austin currently faces for development to jump I-35 to the east, and even then that's only in the last few years. 

As for Tulsa, I still can't decide if the "island" effect created by the IDL helps or hurts us.  We need to create an artificial land scarcity to encourage urban format develpoment downtown.  That said we don't have a single area where you get the gradual transition of houses to apartments to downtown that are usually the most desired real estate in any city. 

BTW that original picture of what was taken down to build the IDL is horribly depressing.  Apparently Riverside Drive was also slated to become an interstate and connect to the IDL through Maple Ridge.  The residents rebelled and stopped construction.  It's the only successful highway revolt in Oklahoma history. 

[SXSW]

As for Tulsa, I still can't decide if the "island" effect created by the IDL helps or hurts us.  We need to create an artificial land scarcity to encourage urban format develpoment downtown.  That said we don't have a single area where you get the gradual transition of houses to apartments to downtown that are usually the most desired real estate in any city. 

The south side where the IDL is buried is the best example we have.  The problem lies in that the growing infill districts like Brady and Blue Dome/East Village are on the opposite sides of downtown. 

[SXSW]

LandArchPoke, have you thought about sending this proposal to GT Bynum?  Per a recent TW article he is researching "best practices" and ideas for moving Tulsa forward.  This is maybe something he could get behind.

Something else I've been thinking about is if you are already rebuilding and putting the BA Expressway below grade between Peoria and Lewis in this scenario why not also do the same all the way to Harvard?  That would help reconnect midtown neighborhoods.  You could also transfer the rail ROW in the center of the highway to the side allowing for a double track instead of the current single track and also make it better for future stations.  Just look at I-25 in south Denver where they did this as part of the TREX projects in the mid 2000's.

[Markk]

LandArchPoke, have you thought about sending this proposal to GT Bynum?  Per a recent TW article he is researching "best practices" and ideas for moving Tulsa forward.  This is maybe something he could get behind.

Something else I've been thinking about is if you are already rebuilding and putting the BA Expressway below grade between Peoria and Lewis in this scenario why not also do the same all the way to Harvard?  That would help reconnect midtown neighborhoods.  You could also transfer the rail ROW in the center of the highway to the side allowing for a double track instead of the current single track and also make it better for future stations.  Just look at I-25 in south Denver where they did this as part of the TREX projects in the mid 2000's.

We can't even properly maintain the BA, and you're talking about spending $xy,000,000 to bury it?   That's a pipe dream.