Vision Extension - IDL Removal/Demolition

[swake]

When is the next Vision sales tax renewal vote, 2029?  I would think something like this would likely be part of it by then especially with matching federal funds.  Anyone driven 75 northbound from the BA lately?  It's in bad shape and will be the last section rebuilt after they finish southbound 75.

Speaking of the Vision renewal below are some other things I think should be in it other than the IDL (knowing it's still several years out):
1. Extensive renovation/expansion of the PAC downtown
2. New downtown convention hotel on the Page Belcher site
3. Downtown streetcar circulator between the CBD, Blue Dome and Arts District
4. Acquisition of land west of Chandler Park creating the county's largest urban wilderness area
5. River trail expansion to Bixby, from Jenks to Turkey Mtn and to Sand Springs
6. Airport concourse expansion and modernization
7. OSU-Tulsa downtown expansion -creation of a Research Campus in Greenwood
8. OU-Tulsa midtown expansion
9. New sidewalks, bike lanes and street light repairs
10. Tree planting along thoroughfares all over the city

The matching funds that could be used for the IDL are available over the next five years. A vote in 2029 is too late.

[buffalodan]

When is the next Vision sales tax renewal vote, 2029?  I would think something like this would likely be part of it by then especially with matching federal funds.  Anyone driven 75 northbound from the BA lately?  It's in bad shape and will be the last section rebuilt after they finish southbound 75.

Speaking of the Vision renewal below are some other things I think should be in it other than the IDL (knowing it's still several years out):
1. Extensive renovation/expansion of the PAC downtown
2. New downtown convention hotel on the Page Belcher site
3. Downtown streetcar circulator between the CBD, Blue Dome and Arts District
4. Acquisition of land west of Chandler Park creating the county's largest urban wilderness area
5. River trail expansion to Bixby, from Jenks to Turkey Mtn and to Sand Springs
6. Airport concourse expansion and modernization
7. OSU-Tulsa downtown expansion -creation of a Research Campus in Greenwood
8. OU-Tulsa midtown expansion
9. New sidewalks, bike lanes and street light repairs
10. Tree planting along thoroughfares all over the city

Why will need to expand the airport concourse in 2029? I get modernizing it, as it always needs some updating. But the airport already seems "right-sized" or am I just visiting during the wrong times?

[shavethewhales]

They are almost using all of the available jetways, but there are a couple spaces where they could add more. Perhaps they could induce some demand by building a third terminal though... Not much room if another carrier wants to come in at this point. That would be pretty speculative though. The main use of the funds will probably be infrastructure around the airport to support what is already there. The new ATC tower is the next big project for them.

As for the other suggestions, the PAC is a no-brainer to invest in more. What happened to that $300 million makeover?

Streetcar is probably overkill downtown. It's not that hard to walk from the arts district to the blue dome. We aren't as spread out as OKC in that regard. The fancy busses and the downtown trolley (is that still around?) probably do enough.

The land west of Chandler is some kind of toxic dump that was covered over.

River trail expansion down to Bixby would be cool.

[tulsabug]

I dig all those things^. I'd love some protected bike lines... curbs or plastic barriers would make me a lot more likely to bike places.

Some serious streetscaping on 11th would be nice but none of this silly street parking like Cherry street (I understand it there but 11th ain't 15th). I'm down with protected bike lanes but I'd like to see them integrated into the sidewalks and then add a suicide lane to 11th up from Peoria to Memorial. Since none of these things will ever happen I'd also like to throw out maybe we do a 10-story tall Route 66 Museum shaped like a 50's Cadillac nosed into the ground - that'd be cool. 

[SXSW]

The PAC should be the signature project for the next Vision.  Hire a famous architect and go all out like they did with the BOK Center.  Completely revamped interior and exterior and a new smaller, 5th theater across 3rd St.

The airport is likely right-sized for current passenger counts and flights but not for future growth 15-30 years from now.  That involves adding more gates to each of the concourses as well as an FIS (immigration) for international arriving flights (OKC just added one with their recent expansion).  While doing this the concourses likely would be rebuilt to be wider with higher ceilings, updated finishes and new F&B options.  Then after those projects are complete the rest of the airport would be "refreshed" to match the updated design (ticketing areas, baggage claim, etc).  Vision funds make sense to fund at least part of this project (they are currently helping fund the new ATC tower).

Regarding Chandler Park, there is one small section that is a Superfund site but hundreds of acres to the west that could be the next Turkey Mtn (rugged hilly terrain, cliffs, hiking/biking trails) and help alleviate some of the pressure  Turkey faces from so many visitors.  It could easily further cement Tulsa as a mountain biking destination.

[Vision 2025]

The PAC should be the signature project for the next Vision.  Hire a famous architect and go all out like they did with the BOK Center.  Completely revamped interior and exterior and a new smaller, 5th theater across 3rd St.

The airport is likely right-sized for current passenger counts and flights but not for future growth 15-30 years from now.  That involves adding more gates to each of the concourses as well as an FIS (immigration) for international arriving flights (OKC just added one with their recent expansion).  While doing this the concourses likely would be rebuilt to be wider with higher ceilings, updated finishes and new F&B options.  Then after those projects are complete the rest of the airport would be "refreshed" to match the updated design (ticketing areas, baggage claim, etc).  Vision funds make sense to fund at least part of this project (they are currently helping fund the new ATC tower).

Regarding Chandler Park, there is one small section that is a Superfund site but hundreds of acres to the west that could be the next Turkey Mtn (rugged hilly terrain, cliffs, hiking/biking trails) and help alleviate some of the pressure  Turkey faces from so many visitors.  It could easily further cement Tulsa as a mountain biking destination.

Hopeful to think about growth with the West concourse maybe 1/2 utilized today.

I believe the majority of the Tower funding is from ARP funds. 

I second the idea for Chandler Park expansion, its been discussed in the past.

[SXSW]

I second the idea for Chandler Park expansion, its been discussed in the past.

V2025 - do you know when the next vote is to extend the Vision sales tax? 

It would be an amazing asset to have an urban wilderness area west of Chandler, especially with the County already controlling Chandler Park on the east end and being able to connect the two.  Such a park/wilderness area would be 3x the size of Turkey Mtn with similar elevation changes along the two main drainages with lots of exposed bluffs along Avery Drive.

Fingers crossed that RiverParks will be able to purchase the Mid-Continent site on the west bank and expand the festival park. 

[swake]

1. I agree with the PAC, I almost think it's time to replace it if renovation isn't economical, certainly do NOT spend money to save the current building. It's ugly and dated.
2. Seconded on a convention hotel, but, it should be where the police/city courts are now. That building is done. Vision funds for a new police/fire headquarters building, either by the jail or on the parking lots by the county. courthouse. A TIF can be used to fund the hotel
3. I like the idea of a streetcar to connect downtown. I would add OSU Tulsa and the Pearl District.
4. All for expanding Chandler Park, but I would prefer a city bond issue and Chandler is a county park
5. All for expanding the trail system but again, most of your new connections would be outside the city
6. I wouldn't support using vision funds on the physical Airport facility, federal funds and use fees on tickets cover that
6B. I could see a pot of money to be used on ticket guarantees for new routes
7. OSU has to grow. The city needs to help with funding and to fight for additional programs to create a full free standing research university
8. OU needs to grow as well, good idea. Maybe buy Promenade Mall for OU?
I'm all for 9 and 10

I would add these:
11. A major expansion to the new Gilcrease
12. Purchase the concrete plant on the west bank for a Soccer specific stadium complex
12. Zoo Improvements
14. A new fund to lend money for downtown housing, but, this time specifically for affordable apartments for downtown service workers
15. Paint the damn 21st St bridge

[SXSW]

1. I agree with the PAC, I almost think it's time to replace it if renovation isn't economical, certainly do NOT spend money to save the current building. It's ugly and dated.

Like I said this should be the crown jewel of this package.  The current building needs a major overhaul like what they proposed a couple years ago at ~$300M.  And build the 5th theater on the parking lot across 3rd.

2. Seconded on a convention hotel, but, it should be where the police/city courts are now. That building is done. Vision funds for a new police/fire headquarters building, either by the jail or on the parking lots by the county. courthouse. A TIF can be used to fund the hotel

I think that is where the Arena District Master Plans shows it.  I think the Page Belcher site is better being across from the BOK Center but still able to connect to the convention center.  If not then some kind of green space would be good on that site once a new Federal Building is constructed downtown

3. I like the idea of a streetcar to connect downtown. I would add OSU Tulsa and the Pearl District.

This would be a "starter line" similar to what they did in OKC.  Future connections could go down to 18th & Boston and down 11th to the Pearl and TU

4. All for expanding Chandler Park, but I would prefer a city bond issue and Chandler is a county park

In that case a county package supporting parks and transportation should absolutely including funding to expand Chandler.  Look at how popular Turkey Mountain the Keystone Ancient Forest have been; this would be even bigger and better.

5. All for expanding the trail system but again, most of your new connections would be outside the city

Add to a county package focusing on parks, trails and transportation (streets and bike infrastructure)

6. I wouldn't support using vision funds on the physical Airport facility, federal funds and use fees on tickets cover that
6B. I could see a pot of money to be used on ticket guarantees for new routes

Probably right, but should start planning for new larger concourses to be funded with bonds and landing fees.  The airport is "fine" but could be outstanding with some key improvements.  Again look at what nearby OKC and Wichita have done with their similar-sized airports

7. OSU has to grow. The city needs to help with funding and to fight for additional programs to create a full free standing research university
8. OU needs to grow as well, good idea. Maybe buy Promenade Mall for OU?

Previous Vision funding built the Helmerich ATRC and OU Library, this should be a significant part of this package

I'm all for 9 and 10

I would add these:
11. A major expansion to the new Gilcrease

Great idea on Gilcrease.  The new museum is great start but that collection deserves an even bigger, grander facility

12. Purchase the concrete plant on the west bank for a Soccer specific stadium complex

Hopefully this site will be purchased by the city within the next 1-2 years as it officially goes on the market soon.  But programming for it absolutely should be part of this package

12. Zoo Improvements

Agree the zoo has seen a lot of improvements but there are still old buildings and exhibits that need to be updated.  I would love to see the zoo eventually expand onto the parkland to the east.

14. A new fund to lend money for downtown housing, but, this time specifically for affordable apartments for downtown service workers

Fantastic idea!  There has been incentive money in the past for downtown residential projects.  This would make developers add more affordable/workforce units to their projects and provide the necessary financial incentive to do that

15. Paint the damn 21st St bridge

And add back the lights while they're at it 

[Vision 2025]

14. A new fund to lend money for downtown housing, but, this time specifically for affordable apartments for downtown service workers
Fantastic idea!  There has been incentive money in the past for downtown residential projects.  This would make developers add more affordable/workforce units to their projects and provide the necessary financial incentive to do that

The majority of the original Vision 2025 fund for downtown housing is still intact and is approved for second generation projects by the City.

[Vision 2025]

V2025 - do you know when the next vote is to extend the Vision sales tax? 

It's well early at this point, I would not expect real discussions for another five to possibly seven years. 

[patric]

And add back the lights while they're at it 

Maybe something a little better thought out than just lights for the sake of lights.
The river is a delicate ecosystem that doesnt need to look like a gas station.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180612090618.htm

[Tulsan]

It's well early at this point, I would not expect real discussions for another five to possibly seven years.  

Super random thought but I don't think Kirby is right.

I've heard some slow drumbeats about a convention center hotel, new PAC, soccer stadium funding, Turkey Mountain pedestrian bridges (over the river and over 75). Also OKC is now probably going to vote on a new arena in the next year or so.

With this in mind, I was looking at the 2016 Vision tax plan... for Proposition 3, 0.5% of the tax expires on July 1, 2025, not Dec 31, 2031. And the city has figured out that it's a lot easier to extend a tax for a new purpose that reinstate - that way they can campaign on "no tax increase" (I'm politically agnostic on this tactic, just pointing out that it's a reality).

So - I predict we should start getting ready for new Vision discussions in the next 18 months or so. Not 5-7 years.

[SXSW]

Super random thought but I don't think Kirby is right.

I've heard some slow drumbeats about a convention center hotel, new PAC, soccer stadium funding, Turkey Mountain pedestrian bridges (over the river and over 75). Also OKC is now probably going to vote on a new arena in the next year or so.

With this in mind, I was looking at the 2016 Vision tax plan... for Proposition 3, 0.5% of the tax expires on July 1, 2025, not Dec 31, 2031. And the city has figured out that it's a lot easier to extend a tax for a new purpose that reinstate - that way they can campaign on "no tax increase" (I'm politically agnostic on this tactic, just pointing out that it's a reality).

So - I predict we should start getting ready for new Vision discussions in the next 18 months or so. Not 5-7 years.

Sooner is better, especially with the PAC.  OKC can have their new arena and we can have a world-class PAC.  We shouldn't settle for anything less. 

[SXSW]

Well one of my future Vision ideas is happening.  This is exciting news for the river trail system

The funds will create a multimodal trail system with the South Tulsa/Jenks Dam project

The RAISE project will separate bicycles and pedestrians from motorized vehicular traffic on both sides of the river to provide safe travel conditions. The remainder of the project consists of three main components:

East Bank connecting trail that will make significant repairs, additions, and upgrades to the trails along the east bank of the river.

The West Bank Connection will focus on connecting the City of Jenks with other trails on the west side of the river and to Tulsa, and the popular Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness.

https://ktul.com/news/local/tulsa-to-receive-162-million-grant-for-pedestrian-mobility-project?fbclid=IwAR0_ArOejyAaWnEC-Bm8X76b74CNF99oDmelo-JHHVh13zXLDKK5mLRzTQ0

What's the status of the Jenks low water dam project?