Trump

[Red Arrow]

When I was a LOT younger, I saw spots on the TV (yes it had been invented) reminding resident aliens to sign-in at the Post Office.  My great grandmother on my mom's side had to do that.  Maybe we should return to that.  I agree, NO religious affiliation should be involved.

Now, in spite of what I said above, my impression is that the radical Muslim terrorists claim (incorrectly) to be doing their "thing" in the name of Islam.  My impression is also that the "Christian" terrorists are mostly just plain jerks and not performing their "thing" in the name of Jesus or God.  There are some attacks on abortion clinics that are rooted in religion but as I remember, Timothy McVeigh just hated the government.

[Ed W]

They do.  When they purchase a gun from an FFL.  The serial numbers on their firearms can be traced. Their ownership can be traced.  And it's all stored in *gasp* databases!

Actually, no, the records are not in databases. A gun seller is legally obligated to keep a paper ledger of FFL forms for 20 years with no obligation to send them to ATF unless the seller is going out of business. I'd assume the authorities can trace a firearm from the manufacturer via the serial number, but someone has to sit down and page through the ledger. But I can't remember if the FFL includes that serial number, though I'd assume that day's sales information may do so.

It's cumbersome.

[Hoss]

Actually, no, the records are not in databases. A gun seller is legally obligated to keep a paper ledger of FFL forms for 20 years with no obligation to send them to ATF unless the seller is going out of business. I'd assume the authorities can trace a firearm from the manufacturer via the serial number, but someone has to sit down and page through the ledger. But I can't remember if the FFL includes that serial number, though I'd assume that day's sales information may do so.

It's cumbersome.

Plus, the NRA, from my recollection, made it ILLEGAL for the ATF to actually keep gun owner records in an electronic database.  So, those records are in boxes upon boxes upon more boxes of paper records as well as some on microfiche.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/atf-ridiculous-non-searchable-databases-explained/

[heironymouspasparagus]

Plus, the NRA, from my recollection, made it ILLEGAL for the ATF to actually keep gun owner records in an electronic database.  So, those records are in boxes upon boxes upon more boxes of paper records as well as some on microfiche.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/atf-ridiculous-non-searchable-databases-explained/

NRA can't do that.   

Congress made it illegal for ATF to keep the electronic database.  But it isn't as drawn out and cumbersome as one might think to track one down.

[Hoss]

NRA can't do that.   

Congress made it illegal for ATF to keep the electronic database.  But it isn't as drawn out and cumbersome as one might think to track one down.

My point is, the NRA lobbied for congress to make it illegal.

[heironymouspasparagus]

My point is, the NRA lobbied for congress to make it illegal.

Absolutely!  Following the 4th Amendment ideals....

[swake]

When I was a LOT younger, I saw spots on the TV (yes it had been invented) reminding resident aliens to sign-in at the Post Office.  My great grandmother on my mom's side had to do that.  Maybe we should return to that.  I agree, NO religious affiliation should be involved.

Now, in spite of what I said above, my impression is that the radical Muslim terrorists claim (incorrectly) to be doing their "thing" in the name of Islam.  My impression is also that the "Christian" terrorists are mostly just plain jerks and not performing their "thing" in the name of Jesus or God.  There are some attacks on abortion clinics that are rooted in religion but as I remember, Timothy McVeigh just hated the government.

That is just simple not true. Tim McVeigh said he was a Christian but that he would not discuss his beliefs. He reportedly spent time with the weird cult at Elohim City and at least was linked to residents there.  

The Christian Identity movement is maybe the leading White Supremacist group in the country today. They are certainly violent and have a particularly weird take on Christianity where Paul is the devil and they are very religious. Dylan Roof had a bunch of their stuff at his home.  If he wasn't  a member he was inspired by them, much like the lone wolf attacks we have had that were inspired by ISIS.

The KKK is certainly a Protestant Christian terrorist group that along with targeting blacks for the last 150 years hates Jews and Catholics.

The attacks on the Sikh Temple and Unitarian Church in the last few years were done in the name of Religion by so called Christians. The Westboro Church, though not violent is another example. The crazy anti-abortion shooter last year, Robert Dear, was killing in the name of Christianity, though he was more crazy than religious.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That is just simple not true. Tim McVeigh said he was a Christian but that he would not discuss his beliefs. He reportedly spent time with the weird cult at Elohim City and at least was linked to residents there.  

The Christian Identity movement is maybe the leading White Supremacist group in the country today. They are certainly violent and have a particularly weird take on Christianity where Paul is the devil and they are very religious. Dylan Roof had a bunch of their stuff at his home.  If he wasn't  a member he was inspired by them, much like the lone wolf attacks we have had that were inspired by ISIS.

The KKK is certainly a Protestant Christian terrorist group that along with targeting blacks for the last 150 years hates Jews and Catholics.

The attacks on the Sikh Temple and Unitarian Church in the last few years were done in the name of Religion by so called Christians. The Westboro Church, though not violent is another example. The crazy anti-abortion shooter last year, Robert Dear, was killing in the name of Christianity, though he was more crazy than religious.

The Southern Baptist Church was a spinoff in the south specifically due to the issue of slavery.  And the KKK was their "political action" group.  KKK is still that.

[swake]

The Southern Baptist Church was a spinoff in the south specifically due to the issue of slavery.  And the KKK was their "political action" group.  KKK is still that.

That's not completely fair, the SBC has tried to distance themselves from their racist past and now have many black members. Not that there aren't lots of racist Southern Baptists, but many if not most Southern Baptists don't even know that their denomination only exists because of their religious support of slavery and that support of slavery is THE reason the Southern Baptists broke from American Baptists before the Civil War.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's not completely fair, the SBC has tried to distance themselves from their racist past and now have many black members. Not that there aren't lots of racist Southern Baptists, but many if not most Southern Baptists don't even know that their denomination only exists because of their religious support of slavery and that support of slavery is THE reason the Southern Baptists broke from American Baptists before the Civil War.

What's not fair??  Statement of fact?   Yes, they have distanced themselves hugely from their past...I have quite a few VERY close family members who are still and were raised Southern Baptist - I got started there before turning to the "dark side" of being raised Methodist....


I am sure you are right about most not knowing the history - most people in this country have minimal to none knowledge of history of any kind...

I was probably unclear about the last part of that - the KKK still is active and has many members who claim to be Christian....and anyone with half a brain knows they are not... but the Klan is not a political arm of the Southern Baptist Convention in any way that I have been able to detect.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The REAL thing that they are just keeps on comin'....

Megyn, did you really think all that stuff you been spewing was just talk/rhetoric to so many of these people??  You are the source for much of it, at least for YOUR fans!!


https://www.yahoo.com/news/megyn-kelly-shut-down-trump-044700114.html

[Conan71]

NRA can't do that.   

Congress made it illegal for ATF to keep the electronic database.  But it isn't as drawn out and cumbersome as one might think to track one down.

In other words, people who own firearms are known to the government when needed.  No different than registering who our guests and future citizens are, just not searchable with one click of a button.  You can't really "track" people with one click of a button that easily either.

Next?

[heironymouspasparagus]

In other words, people who own firearms are known to the government when needed.  


No different than registering who our guests and future citizens are, just not searchable with one click of a button.  You can't really "track" people with one click of a button that easily either.

Next?

ATF just goes to a gun shop and looks through the 4473's.  Takes some time, but not insurmountable.  They do have to have at least some idea of where to start...


As for foreigners here - absolutely we should be able to track them at a click of a button.  No excuse not to at this point.  That is pretty much one of the points to Immigration - to keep track of visas, visitors, etc.  And if we didn't have the obstructionists preventing upgrades to national computer systems, it would be much easier.  It's astounding how many systems are still on 1960's and 1970's IBM mainframes running Cobol programs....

[Conan71]

ATF just goes to a gun shop and looks through the 4473's.  Takes some time, but not insurmountable.  They do have to have at least some idea of where to start...


As for foreigners here - absolutely we should be able to track them at a click of a button.  No excuse not to at this point.  That is pretty much one of the points to Immigration - to keep track of visas, visitors, etc.  And if we didn't have the obstructionists preventing upgrades to national computer systems, it would be much easier.  It's astounding how many systems are still on 1960's and 1970's IBM mainframes running Cobol programs....

So why is everyone wetting their pants over this and deporting criminals who are here illegally?  That all seems like perfectly sane policy to me and isn't vastly different than what we do now except for Trump wants to take credit for getting criminals off the street when it happens.  The Trump camp has repeatedly said they would deport criminals here illegally, not all illegal immigrants.  Since the number they keep throwing out is 2-3 million they want to round up, that seems to jibe since I believe it was estimated we had 16 to 20 million illegal er undocumented aliens in the run up to Obamacare.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So why is everyone wetting their pants over this and deporting criminals who are here illegally?  That all seems like perfectly sane policy to me and isn't vastly different than what we do now except for Trump wants to take credit for getting criminals off the street when it happens.  The Trump camp has repeatedly said they would deport criminals here illegally, not all illegal immigrants.  Since the number they keep throwing out is 2-3 million they want to round up, that seems to jibe since I believe it was estimated we had 16 to 20 million illegal er undocumented aliens in the run up to Obamacare.

Why not wet their pants??  Nothing better to do, especially since so many of us don't use the brain we were given to start with...  The hyperbole runs deep all across the spectrum...deeper on the right - kinda like when Trump said he thought there should be a revolution if Romney won the popular vote but not the electoral.   Irony/hypocrisy/intellectual dishonesty noted.    The left just doesn't have the expertise at it that the other side has.


Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet.