Downtown Bus Loop

[Ibanez]

It is an odd puzzle - the need for a bus.  I have spent some time in Milwaukee and the mindset is very different there.  Even my mindset was different while there.  Theirs is a core downtown space very similar in size to Tulsa - I am using 1 mile by 1 mile as the measure to encompass most of what might be considered core downtown 'stuff'.  Tulsa has lower concentration of everything, especially as move south of about 6th street here.

There are a lot of bicycles, even in the winter if the snow situation isn't too bad.  But everybody walks!  Everybody!  Nobody even considers car, bus, or cab just to go 6 or 8 blocks or more (like going to lunch, etc).  Winter can be a little ragged, with winds between the buildings that I believe are even worse than here, but that doesn't stop the walking.  Evenings, we would usually walk from hotels west of river (near the mall) to the restaurants near the Public Market.  You can tell the tourists and the out of towners by the cars they drive.  Parking is available, but very 'tight' compared to Tulsa, with a lot of it around the interstate at the river - you drive into town, park, then don't move the car until ready to leave for the day.

Don't know why, but while there, you just don't even consider anything but walking, unless it is a blizzard.  Then you mostly stay put.  Downtown here for some reason, walking seems like it's more 'difficult'....even though I walk all the time everywhere else I stop....

I was up there this past December and my experience is the same as yours. One night it was snowing and cold, cold, cold but that didn't stop anyone from being out walking around and looking at the Christmas light displays downtown. My group was right there with all the locals, I'm sure we were colder than they were but we enjoyed ourselves and never even thought about taking a bus/cab anywhere. We were out enjoying the night and walking just seemed the best way to get here/there and enjoy ourselves.

About the bus v trolley debate here. I was talking this morning with someone who comes into town from Denver to work with one of my groups for a couple of weeks every six months and she made a comment that I think nailed my feelings on this as well. What she said was "Why get rid of the trolleys and go to a big, ugly bus? The trolley is so much more charming and gives you a different feel when you see it driving around your downtown or are riding on it. I ride it whenever I'm here and love it. A bus is just a bus and will be a big, ugly thing that may move more people at once, but I have never seen the trolley be full so I doubt the extra capacity is really needed. A bus just doesn't have near the charm or uniqueness that the trolleys do and I think whoever made this decision made a bad one."

[takemebacktotulsa]

The one thing that might help is the app where you can track it like uber so there'll be no standing around waiting for it.

That shouldn't be too hard, because the Tulsa Transit Authority already has an app that tracks and maps all the busses in town in real time. It actually works surprisingly well. 

[takemebacktotulsa]

I really like the bus loop idea, I just feel that the city needs to think a little bigger... A downtown-pearl district - cherry street - brookside - 18th and boston - back to downtown loop would be well utilized I think.

[DowntownDan]

I really like the bus loop idea, I just feel that the city needs to think a little bigger... A downtown-pearl district - cherry street - brookside - 18th and boston - back to downtown loop would be well utilized I think.

I think they tried that a while back and it never really caught on.  I think wait time was a problem and downtown options were still pretty limited.  My guess is that once people start living downtown and options continue to increase, they can get some traction.  I live near Cherry Street and would walk to catch a bus downtown for dinner or a baseball or soccer game or concert if it was running.

[takemebacktotulsa]

I think they tried that a while back and it never really caught on.  I think wait time was a problem and downtown options were still pretty limited.  My guess is that once people start living downtown and options continue to increase, they can get some traction.  I live near Cherry Street and would walk to catch a bus downtown for dinner or a baseball or soccer game or concert if it was running.

Oh did they? I guess I missed that... Was it a Tulsa Transit, or a private trolley thing?

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Oh did they? I guess I missed that... Was it a Tulsa Transit, or a private trolley thing?

I remember riding the old urban trolley from cherry st to downtown around 2008.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

We obviously disagree on the trolley.  Old buildings/structures = interesting, charming and historical.  Old forms of transportation = old and outdated.  Steam trains are a novel bit of fun for a short excursion in a picturesque area, but I wouldn't want to take one to work every day. I rode the cable car in San Francisco with other tourists - once.  The locals ride the bus.  I will withhold judgment until I see the unveiling of the new bus(s) to be used, but I suspect they will be much improved over the cramped uncomfortable fake trolley/bus being replaced.

I also agree this is still not frequent enough or enough days/hours of operation.  Hopefully, this is a toe in the water for the city that will expand if people use it (or it gets Vision extension money).  At least the city is stepping in to pay where before the trolley was funded exclusively by the downtown businesses.  That in itself is a step in the right direction.

Why do people like classic cars so much? They're old and outdated!

The trolley bus isn't meant to be an every day form of transportation. It is adds charm and is a whimsical thing people do when they're out enjoying downtown on a weekend. I also hope the new bus is nice and unique. They make it out to be.

As a note, the news article said the old urban trolley was also funded by Tulsa Transit.

[TeeDub]

As a note, the news article said the old urban trolley was also funded by Tulsa Transit.

I think we read different articles....

The trolley, owned and operated by Old Urban Trolley Inc., will discontinue its downtown route at the end of this month. The trolley route through downtown was sponsored by downtown businesses and organizations at no cost to the city.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I was up there this past December and my experience is the same as yours. One night it was snowing and cold, cold, cold but that didn't stop anyone from being out walking around and looking at the Christmas light displays downtown. My group was right there with all the locals, I'm sure we were colder than they were but we enjoyed ourselves and never even thought about taking a bus/cab anywhere. We were out enjoying the night and walking just seemed the best way to get here/there and enjoy ourselves.

Nope - you weren't colder - they were just as cold!  They complain in a more 'stoic' fashion, but they put up with it because of the quality of life issues the state has.  Ice fishing, snowmobiles, skating, etc...all things ice-sport related.  In spite of the aberrant nature of their governor - for some reason they have gotten the idea in the last few years that the Mary Failin' way of life is somehow desirable.

The only place I wasn't willing to walk to was the Harley museum.  I don't think it was that much further than other places I was walking to...it was just a much more indirect route.  Was on Plankinton quite a bit and 4 blocks south puts you right at the east side of museum.  But then ya gotta get across the river...another mile or so round about.  I guess I coulda walked across the ice, but don't trust river ice.  They need another bridge - at least a walking bridge.

And Summerfest up there is said to be amazing!  The Rolling Stones played the night before official start this year.  We were in the area (Janesville) just before 4th of July and didn't make it into town, but the whole area is way cool !!

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I think we read different articles....

The trolley, owned and operated by Old Urban Trolley Inc., will discontinue its downtown route at the end of this month. The trolley route through downtown was sponsored by downtown businesses and organizations at no cost to the city.

Yes we did. The KJRH article linked above said:

The trolley service started four years ago and was operated by a company called Old Urban Trolley with funding coming from Tulsa Transit and a group of downtown businesses.

[Red Arrow]

About the bus v trolley debate here. I was talking this morning with someone who comes into town from Denver to work with one of my groups for a couple of weeks every six months and she made a comment that I think nailed my feelings on this as well. What she said was "Why get rid of the trolleys and go to a big, ugly bus? The trolley is so much more charming and gives you a different feel when you see it driving around your downtown or are riding on it. I ride it whenever I'm here and love it. A bus is just a bus and will be a big, ugly thing that may move more people at once, but I have never seen the trolley be full so I doubt the extra capacity is really needed. A bus just doesn't have near the charm or uniqueness that the trolleys do and I think whoever made this decision made a bad one."

I'll agree that the vehicle being used until Tuesday has some quaintness but it too is really just a bus.

Long live steel wheels, rails and overhead electric power..... real trolleys.

Edit: add links below
http://www.neworleansonline.com/tools/transportation/gettingaround/streetcars.html

http://www.streetcar.org/rider-information-map-2/

http://www.littlerock.com/things-to-do/detail/river-rail-electric-street-car-trolley2

http://www.phillytrolley.org

http://www.tecolinestreetcar.org

http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/vintagetrolley.htm

[Conan71]

I'll agree that the vehicle being used until Tuesday has some quaintness but it too is really just a bus.

Long live steel wheels, rails and overhead electric power..... real trolleys.

Edit: add links below
http://www.neworleansonline.com/tools/transportation/gettingaround/streetcars.html

http://www.streetcar.org/rider-information-map-2/

http://www.littlerock.com/things-to-do/detail/river-rail-electric-street-car-trolley2

http://www.phillytrolley.org

http://www.tecolinestreetcar.org

http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/vintagetrolley.htm

I was walking across a railroad track in the old Stapleton Airport area the other night and making sure I didn't hit that dreaded third rail when I realized they had power overhead.  I've not looked into their light rail system, but guessing there must be a connector from downtown Denver to KDEN.

[Red Arrow]

I was walking across a railroad track in the old Stapleton Airport area the other night and making sure I didn't hit that dreaded third rail when I realized they had power overhead.  I've not looked into their light rail system, but guessing there must be a connector from downtown Denver to KDEN.

I've heard something along that line.  I didn't feel the need to post every link possible.  You're right to stay away from the 3rd rail.  It's a killer, literally.

[TeeDub]

Yes we did. The KJRH article linked above said:

So who do we trust?    The original Tulsa world article or the KJRH "Problem Solvers"?

Because really, facts don't get much different than that.

[TheArtist]

It is an odd puzzle - the need for a bus.  I have spent some time in Milwaukee and the mindset is very different there.  Even my mindset was different while there.  Theirs is a core downtown space very similar in size to Tulsa - I am using 1 mile by 1 mile as the measure to encompass most of what might be considered core downtown 'stuff'.  Tulsa has lower concentration of everything, especially as move south of about 6th street here.

There are a lot of bicycles, even in the winter if the snow situation isn't too bad.  But everybody walks!  Everybody!  Nobody even considers car, bus, or cab just to go 6 or 8 blocks or more (like going to lunch, etc).  Winter can be a little ragged, with winds between the buildings that I believe are even worse than here, but that doesn't stop the walking.  Evenings, we would usually walk from hotels west of river (near the mall) to the restaurants near the Public Market.  You can tell the tourists and the out of towners by the cars they drive.  Parking is available, but very 'tight' compared to Tulsa, with a lot of it around the interstate at the river - you drive into town, park, then don't move the car until ready to leave for the day.

Don't know why, but while there, you just don't even consider anything but walking, unless it is a blizzard.  Then you mostly stay put.  Downtown here for some reason, walking seems like it's more 'difficult'....even though I walk all the time everywhere else I stop....

Thats interesting.  I wonder if their downtown is more "walkable" or stayed more walkable/pedestrian lively and didn't empty out as much as ours did?    Also, perhaps it could just be an attitude that a few adopted and kept and then grew over time.  I think we can create that here if a few people decide to. Once that idea gets started and people see it and others follow, it would take on a life of its own.