PAC Trust selects developer

[swake]

Kansas City is what we should follow...

Why, do they spend a couple of hundred million dollars so bike messengers aren't inconvenienced?

[davideinstein]

Why, do they spend a couple of hundred million dollars so bike messengers aren't inconvenienced?

What in the hell are you talking about? I voiced my opinion on urban planning on this forum years before I had my current job. Stick to the discussion and don't be an annoyance.

[Conan71]

Kansas City is what we should follow...

What? With Oklahoma City-like sprawl?  No thanks.  I've lived in KC, great city but not something Tulsa should aspire to be.

[RecycleMichael]

I will be in KC again this weekend for kid soccer. I went to college nearby and have a sister in Independence.

Kansas City does some things very well. The major league baseball and football bring in big dollars in tourists and the Plaza shopping area rakes in the dough. I like how they built the Convention Center with tunnels over major downtown roads so traffic gets through. The soccer complex we are going to in Overland Park cost $36 million for 12 artificial turf fields and is touted as one of the most successful youth sports ventures anywhere. Our games this weekend are against teams from Minnesota, Tennessee, and Missouri.

The towns are hard to compare. We boomed with oil money in Tulsa banks and they were the connection of three cattle trails and trains plus a river capable of shipping cows back east.

We do compete with them fairly. We have a better downtown. We have a better zoo. We have lower taxes. 

[cannon_fodder]

The soccer complex we are going to in Overland Park cost $36 million for 12 artificial turf fields and is touted as one of the most successful youth sports ventures anywhere...

We do compete with them fairly. We have a better downtown. We have a better zoo. We have lower taxes. 

Soccer got a huge boast in KC with the Kansas City Sporting, wildly successful and now the training site for the US Olympic team.

Kansas City has an interesting downtown area. The WWI Museum and Union Station are amazing assets. They have a neat mall downtown that is often busy. A movie theater. Downtown is mighty dense.

Plaza is cool. Other areas in the older part of town are really dense. But when you get outside of KC, it is the same as Owasso/Jenks/Etc. very quickly.

I had job opportunities in KC that would have paid more to start than I made in Tulsa. I like Tulsa better. Not only because we are a few hundred miles further south...

[cynical]

Years ago Kansas City had the foresight to resist the fad of building round all-purpose sports stadiums. They built separate baseball and football stadiums. They have maintained and improved them over the years, but they are still there being used, while all of the all-purpose stadiums in places like St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, etc., are gone, replaced with single-purpose stadiums. Somehow, KC has kept its NFL franchise while St. Louis has lost two. KC has become a destination, a "cool" place for young professionals. The main problem I see is its proximity to Brownbackistan, er, Kansas. I have friends just over the border in Olathe and places like it who are at their wits' end.

Meanwhile, Minneapolis is building yet another stadium to entice the Vikings to stay in town. Someone with a lot of savvy has been navigating KC through the turbulence, a stark contrast to some other places.

Similarly, KC recently built a new performing arts center, the Kauffman Center. Rather than building an all-purpose hall that does everything poorly, they built a center with two major venues, one having a proscenium for opera, ballet, and theater, and one being a single-purpose symphony hall. It is quite impressive, and both are the right size.

https://www.kauffmancenter.org/

There are very interesting things happening there.

Soccer got a huge boast in KC with the Kansas City Sporting, wildly successful and now the training site for the US Olympic team.

Kansas City has an interesting downtown area. The WWI Museum and Union Station are amazing assets. They have a neat mall downtown that is often busy. A movie theater. Downtown is mighty dense.

Plaza is cool. Other areas in the older part of town are really dense. But when you get outside of KC, it is the same as Owasso/Jenks/Etc. very quickly.

I had job opportunities in KC that would have paid more to start than I made in Tulsa. I like Tulsa better. Not only because we are a few hundred miles further south...

[DowntownDan]

The main problem I see is its proximity to Brownbackistan, er, Kansas. I have friends just over the border in Olathe and places like it who are at their wits' end.

Sound familiar to how I and other young(ish) Tulsans feel.

[Conan71]

My understanding is that Utica Square's concept was ripped from Country Club Plaza in KC.

Great place, but again, there's reasons I moved back to Tulsa and choose to visit KC on an as-needed basis.

[Townsend]

Sound familiar to how I and other young(ish) Tulsans feel.

And not-so-youngish Tulsans

[swake]

KOTV is reporting that the PAC Trust has approved the project, but has retained the right to still have final say over the design.

[Conan71]

KOTV is reporting that the PAC Trust has approved the project, but has retained the right to still have final say over the design.

As a symptom of our myopic GOB leadership, Bob LaFortune was on the news last night saying he opposed the project as the 250 space surface parking lot was necessary for the PAC and he felt he had a fiduciary duty to the citizens to maintain that status-quo. 

For those not aware, Mr. LaFortune was Tulsa's mayor in the early 1970's and he sits on the PAC Trust board.

[swake]

As a symptom of our myopic GOB leadership, Bob LaFortune was on the news last night saying he opposed the project as the 250 space surface parking lot was necessary for the PAC and he felt he had a fiduciary duty to the citizens to maintain that status-quo. 

For those not aware, Mr. LaFortune was Tulsa's mayor in the early 1970's and he sits on the PAC Trust board.

Wow.

But doesn't the PAC Trust operate for the good of the city?

[dsjeffries]

New renderings available on the project page.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

As a symptom of our myopic GOB leadership, Bob LaFortune was on the news last night saying he opposed the project as the 250 space surface parking lot was necessary for the PAC and he felt he had a fiduciary duty to the citizens to maintain that status-quo. 

For those not aware, Mr. LaFortune was Tulsa's mayor in the early 1970's and he sits on the PAC Trust board.

How could someone be so out of touch? I thought he was against the 71st and Riverside development (which is good that he opposed it).

He sounds either uninformed or completely wrong. Does he not realize the new development includes a parking garage? Also, it could be home to a new grocery store which would be huge for downtown. I see no real downside to this. Even if it ends up a lot smaller or more plain or Reasor's doesn't move in, it should be a big win for downtown.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

As a symptom of our myopic GOB leadership, Bob LaFortune was on the news last night saying he opposed the project as the 250 space surface parking lot was necessary for the PAC and he felt he had a fiduciary duty to the citizens to maintain that status-quo. 

For those not aware, Mr. LaFortune was Tulsa's mayor in the early 1970's and he sits on the PAC Trust board.

And the parking garage would allow those attending events at the PAC to park in a covered lot and take the covered bridge to the PAC during inclement weather. Then before and after shows, they could have restaurants and other shops right there as an option (instead of having to walk a couple blocks). Seems to be a win-win for the PAC and attendees in comparison to the existing lot.