CVS at 15th and Utica

[DowntownDan]

The developer apparently fought INCOG for several months refusing to move the building to the corner.  They finally gave in and submitted a new site plan.  The building now is to the corner.  It looks better than most CVS's and has less parking that we've come to expect for something like this, but it still doesn't fit the Utica Midtown Corridor Plan.  It isn't mixed use, the main entrance is not on the street, and the parking lot to the north leaves a big gap on Utica  killing any chance at true walkability/connectivity.  The "walkable" corner also is a drive thru separated by a partial brick wall.  The neighborhood at a minimum is pushing to close the entrance on 14th Place.  

Here are the new drawings in case anyone is interested.  The hearing was continued to December 2nd.

[Breadburner]

Still a hideous unneeded smile box......

[cannon_fodder]

Kudos for INCOG actually sticking up for, well, for itself I guess. A definite improvement. but it's funny that they are throwing such a fit, they've done more urban oriented designs all over the place (quick Google search). Are they less profitable, more expensive to build, or they just don't want to and think that they can do as they please in Tulsa (sales tax revenue!!!!1!!1!!!).

I understand (but dislike) the push back from mix-use - it makes CVS a landlord and that's not the business model. But this design seems like they are torturing it in order to keep the "main entrance" facing away from the street and the drive thru next to the sidewalk. Utterly ignoring the concept of walk-ability. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the drive-thru on the east side of the building, the main entrance on the NW corner, angled towards the east and easily accessible from most of the parking. The parking to the east would be employee parking. This still caters to the car culture and parking lot, but would totally front the building and have two signage spots (above the entrance, at at the corner of Utica and 15th).

Not sure what the drawback would be. Doesn't seem like it would interfere with their standard store layout.

Nonetheless, making design progress.

[Conan71]

Kudos for INCOG actually sticking up for, well, for itself I guess. A definite improvement. but it's funny that they are throwing such a fit, they've done more urban oriented designs all over the place (quick Google search). Are they less profitable, more expensive to build, or they just don't want to and think that they can do as they please in Tulsa (sales tax revenue!!!!1!!1!!!).

I understand (but dislike) the push back from mix-use - it makes CVS a landlord and that's not the business model. But this design seems like they are torturing it in order to keep the "main entrance" facing away from the street and the drive thru next to the sidewalk. Utterly ignoring the concept of walk-ability. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the drive-thru on the east side of the building, the main entrance on the NW corner, angled towards the east and easily accessible from most of the parking. The parking to the east would be employee parking. This still caters to the car culture and parking lot, but would totally front the building and have two signage spots (above the entrance, at at the corner of Utica and 15th).

Not sure what the drawback would be. Doesn't seem like it would interfere with their standard store layout.

Nonetheless, making design progress.

After all the investment in making the section of Cherry St. just west of this site more pedestrian-oriented, this seems to thumb it's nose at it.  Definitely an improvement over the original site plan, but we still don't seem to have common sense planning and design.

[SXSW]

Moving in the right direction.  Keep at it until the entrance is moved to the corner or at least along 15th.  Otherwise this does nothing for walkability. 

[BuiltRight]

But this design seems like they are torturing it in order to keep the "main entrance" facing away from the street and the drive thru next to the sidewalk. Utterly ignoring the concept of walk-ability. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the drive-thru on the east side of the building, the main entrance on the NW corner, angled towards the east and easily accessible from most of the parking. The parking to the east would be employee parking. This still caters to the car culture and parking lot, but would totally front the building and have two signage spots (above the entrance, at at the corner of Utica and 15th).

Not sure what the drawback would be. Doesn't seem like it would interfere with their standard store layout.

Nonetheless, making design progress.

Cannon Fodder the reason it seems like they are torturing the designs is because they are, Most major brands like this have a extremely detailed list of requirements that have to be met by the developer that is building on the site. I have seen some that are so long that they require binding them. The other problem is that major brands like this don't like to change from there "Standard" store, so for a developer to get a variation or exclusion from the list of requirements about 12 people have to approve it. And as the joke goes "A Camel, is a Horse designed by a committee"

I give it up to INCOG for at least trying to fight and not just roll over like they usually do.   

[dbacksfan 2.0]

They've done up to the sidewalk with the drive thru and parking in back.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.465739,-112.0734616,3a,75y,170.45h,94.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMn67Z6rMJQtqSliQQddh4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[Bamboo World]

The developer apparently fought INCOG for several months refusing to move the building to the corner.  They finally gave in and submitted a new site plan.  The building now is to the corner.  It looks better than most CVS's and has less parking that we've come to expect for something like this, but it still doesn't fit the Utica Midtown Corridor Plan.  It isn't mixed use, the main entrance is not on the street, and the parking lot to the north leaves a big gap on Utica  killing any chance at true walkability/connectivity.  The "walkable" corner also is a drive thru separated by a partial brick wall.  The neighborhood at a minimum is pushing to close the entrance on 14th Place.  

Here are the new drawings in case anyone is interested.  The hearing was continued to December 2nd.

Thanks for the update, DowntownDan.

About two weeks ago, I stopped for gas at the Conoco station on that corner.  While I was there, a couple pulled up to the pump in front of me.  They got agitated when they saw the yellow TMAPC sign.  At least one of them intended to attend the Nov 18th meeting to oppose CVS's plan, but since I did not attend that TMAPC meeting myself, and I haven't watched it on TGOV, I'm not sure if either one of them went.

I probably won't attend on Dec 2nd, but I might get an email to the TMAPC by then.  CVS's proposal, even as modified, isn't an improvement over what's there now.  It's hideous.

[Bamboo World]

They've done up to the sidewalk with the drive thru and parking in back.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.465739,-112.0734616,3a,75y,170.45h,94.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMn67Z6rMJQtqSliQQddh4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Thanks for the link!

Did you notice the word "BEAUTY" stuck on the McDowell Road facade?    

[AngieB]

They've done up to the sidewalk with the drive thru and parking in back.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.465739,-112.0734616,3a,75y,170.45h,94.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMn67Z6rMJQtqSliQQddh4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Street view shows this location boarded up all the way back to 2008. 

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Street view shows this location boarded up all the way back to 2008.  

That's  an illusion. The walls that face the street are the back walls of the building. The entrance is on the NEWS corner of the building, the drive through is on the SE side in the parking lot. If you look on the 1st  Street view on the east of it you will see that it is open.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.465247,-112.0725971,3a,75y,276.57h,83.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHIfb4DXShviQbXNYTYw0UA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[DowntownDan]

It's to the corner, with an ocean of parking on both sides of the sidewalk.  It's still not right for what the small area plan has envisioned for the area.  The parking lot to the north kills walkability that direction of the corridor.  Before they develop this corner into anything, office, retail, restaurant, they need a parking solution that avoids it looking like the Stillwater National Bank and Arvest buildings across the street which are multi story office buildings but have oceans of parking abutting both 15th and Utica.  I'd like to see the large lot across the street, the big one that's been empty for years, developed with a smart urban parking structure (businesses on street level) and share that parking with Cherry Street and a mixed us office building on this corner.  CVS can even take the bottom floor of the parking structure. 

I know that none of this is easy, but my understanding of the small area plan was to set out what we want.  Let's figure out how to get there instead of trying to build things that don't fit because it's "too hard" to build for an urban environment.  If it never materializes, fine, but lets not give up just a few months after finalizing the plan.

[PonderInc]

At first glance (and with low resolution, I can't see the details), I think they did a number of things right.  For Tulsa, this is a big step forward.  Yes, it's a crap national chain lacking in any sort of architectural appeal. OK. True.  It's going to last about 25 years before it gets updated or demolished for something else.  So, whatever.

What's good about this? The big parking lot is in the back.  Think of this parking lot as "future developable space" (if Tulsa ever gets busy with transit).  That could become mixed use with apartments above, once everyone realizes that it's not needed for parking.  Also the building is set up to the street, but there is some buffer space, so if/when the building is adopted to a different use, there would be room for patio dining. The narrow parking lot on the side is a pretty good compromise.  Usually, you want to see all parking behind the building, but what's the "back" when you're on a corner?  To me, this is a big improvement.  I would eliminate the driveway on 14th PL, but it's important that pedestrian access is maintained.  Yes, it could be better.  (Is the drive-thru really along Utica?) But given the limitations of Tulsa leadership, I think Incog has done a great job to get this far.  Kuddos to the staff, who, unlike the TMAPC, actually understands why this stuff matters.

Update @ 12:11 pm: Holy crap! The drive thru goes along Cherry Street?? OK, this is stupid! I take it all back!

[SXSW]

Update @ 12:11 pm: Holy crap! The drive thru goes along Cherry Street?? OK, this is stupid! I take it all back!

Two steps forward one step back.  Really if they did the following it would be much more in line with the plan for this area:
1. Move the drive-thru to the east side of the building
2. Move the main entrance to the corner
3. Eliminate the curb cut/drive on 14th Pl

[Breadburner]

It sucks alll the way around.......