CVS at 15th and Utica

[Townsend]

If you're for smarter development on Cherry Street, please consider coming to City Hall at 6:00 pm tonight.  

I really wish I could...I hate what is allowed to build in Tulsa. 

If CVS is unwilling to adjust their plans then screw 'em.

[Breadburner]

A shithole CVS has no place here......

[DowntownDan]

Councilors sent it back to TMAPC, set for next Wednesday, April 20.  Then back to City Council a month later.  The writing is on the wall.  As long as the drive thru is on the east side, which it's latest site plan does, it's gonna get approved.  The developer will work with us on landscaping and street scaping but their bottom line is that they need a drive thru, they need the entire footprint, and no second floor.  We're gonna keep fighting for the small area plan, but a slightly better than the suburbs CVS will be there within a year.

[cannon_fodder]

So the small area plan with the new TMAPC has slightly more weight than the old one, but in the end... if you want to build something you just have to be willing to whine long enough and it will be approved.  Sad that I'm satisfied (not happy) with a standard store move around a bit.

Overall, how many square feet of building are we losing? Ergo, how much density are we losing?

[DowntownDan]

So the small area plan with the new TMAPC has slightly more weight than the old one, but in the end... if you want to build something you just have to be willing to whine long enough and it will be approved.  Sad that I'm satisfied (not happy) with a standard store move around a bit.

Overall, how many square feet of building are we losing? Ergo, how much density are we losing?

INCOG is very proud that they got the building to the corner with fake brick exterior and the door slightly near the sidewalk.  Apparently their first proposal was identical to 21st and Harvard.  Even I'll admit that's something, but they act like it fits the plan 90%.  I say its right about 50%.  That's not good enough.

As far as density, they're tearing down the two story medical building to the north and the two story tudor home/law office to the east, along with the gas station at the corner, and replacing it with a single floor, single purpose, box store.  That's the worst of it, and nobody in the position of authority seems to care.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1414066,-95.9671133,3a,75y,96.34h,90.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRG8MvD_ufkpZxTB_YHTccQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1405812,-95.9665537,3a,75y,4.58h,86.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMfpbzEy77UFQ_ezrqDMl8w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[cannon_fodder]

Looked it up:

Gas station: 2840 sq ft
Home: 2884 sq ft
Office Building: 5812 sq ft
- - - - - -
11,536

CVS stores are between 11,000 and 15,000 sq. ft.

So technically, we may be gaining density overall.

Here is CVS site criteria:
http://www.cvspharmacyrealty.com/new-location-criteria

[Conan71]

Looked it up:

Gas station: 2840 sq ft
Home: 2884 sq ft
Office Building: 5812 sq ft
- - - - - -
11,536

CVS stores are between 11,000 and 15,000 sq. ft.

So technically, we may be gaining density overall.

Here is CVS site criteria:
http://www.cvspharmacyrealty.com/new-location-criteria

But it's density with a sole purpose, no additional living square footage in the area, and most likely less jobs than you would have if they were to build a two or three story structure for offices above like the opposite corners.

[dsjeffries]

None of that is density. It's square footage, and that doesn't determine density. No one resides in any of those buildings, so there's zero effect on residential density. Depending on how many folks CVS hires, it could affect the density of jobs at that corner, but probably not very much. What it would do is remove diversity of uses at the corner. Instead of 3 distinct uses drawing people to the corner for different reasons, there would be one reason to visit: CVS.

[DowntownDan]

None of that is density. It's square footage, and that doesn't determine density. No one resides in any of those buildings, so there's zero effect on residential density. Depending on how many folks CVS hires, it could affect the density of jobs at that corner, but probably not very much. What it would do is remove diversity of uses at the corner. Instead of 3 distinct uses drawing people to the corner for different reasons, there would be one reason to visit: CVS.

We've argued that to deaf ears.  Not only density, but the mix of uses.  Under the small area plan, it's a "mixed use corridor."  Susan Miller at INCOG tells us that means a mix of uses within the corridor.  There's a gas station across Utica, and a bank accross 15th.  Hence, mixed use.  So the term "mixed-use corridor" has no meaning whatsoever to INCOG.  Every street in town and in the suburbs is a mixed use corridor as long as there's a Supercuts near a McDonalds near a cell phone store near a mattress shop near a vape store.  The planning commission even agreed that because CVS sells drugs and milk and greeting cards, it's a mixed use building.  The small area plan isn't worth the paper it was written on to those who are charged with implementing it.

[cannon_fodder]

You all raise great points.  If "mixed use" means a district isn't exclusive to one industry, then I'm hard pressed to find any area outside of a subdivision that isn't "mixed use." We don't have a "hammock" district that just sells hammocks...

I'm afraid you're right. Small Area Plans are usually ignored. Please note the road closing QT as an example.  Find an example where the small area plan won over a developer.

[PonderInc]

It looks like the TMAPC approved the revised CVS plan today, so it will go back to the City Council.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/planning-commission-approves-site-plan-for-pharmacy-at-th-and/article_b0e73e6e-12e4-5375-9939-e095e67b3eec.html

I wasn't at the meeting, and can't watch the dang TGOV video because I don't have outdated software on my pc... so I don't have any details.

[Townsend]

Planning Commission OK With CVS at 15th and Utica

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/planning-commission-ok-cvs-15th-and-utica

reworked plan for a CVS pharmacy at 15th Street and Utica Avenue won approval by Tulsa's planning commission.

The commission denied store plans in December because it fell short of a small-area plan calling for mixed-use developments, increased density and pedestrian friendliness. Neighborhood residents also had complaints about the store's appearance.

Attorney Lou Reynolds represents the developers and said they've made changes such as including a street-front door, moving the drive-thru and adding sidewalk-facing lighting.

"Some of these we've agreed on our own. Some we were asked to do, and with no quid pro quo, we've agreed to do this," Reynolds said.

Terrace Drive Neighborhood Association President Terry Meier was unimpressed by the store's new plan.

"CVS has done a wonderful job of putting lipstick on a pig," Meier told the planning commission. "This is their box store. They have moved it around. The very first plan CVS proposed, obviously, completely disregarded the small-area plan."

Another change the company made was including more external brick work. Neighborhood resident Daniel Gomez said that had better be permanent brick, not veneers, and the building needs a functional second floor.

"There's a lot of competition in the pharmacy market. If CVS doesn't last the 20 years they think, at least, they're going to last, I want the building to be convertible to a new use," Gomez said. "I want all this written into the plan."

Tulsa's city council will now consider the planning commission's recommendation for approval.

[cannon_fodder]

"Some of these we've agreed on our own. Some we were asked to do, and with no quid pro quo, we've agreed to do this," Reynolds said.

CVS: Can we build a CVS at this corner?
City: Sure! Here is the zoning and small area plan for that corner!

CVS: We want to put our standard box on the site, tear down a few buildings, enter from a residential street, not front the building, not have a second story, have a drive through, and have lots of surface parking. Is that cool?
City: Ummm, no. You have to conform to the small area plan.

CVS: How about we move the building up a bit, put more brick on the facade, and add windows and lights to the street front?
City: What about mixed use, multi story, walk able, real brick, excess surface parking and using the residential street as an entrance?
CVS: No, we aren't doing that.
CityL Ok, fine.

CVS: Why won't you give in to any of our demands? This is totally unfair!

[DowntownDan]

What I've been asking for is a unique design, not slight modifications to their regular box.  Here are examples from the internet.  Not great in my opinion, but loads better.  The starting point is that the small area plan requires a building that is two stories in height.  CVS is saying the building will be 30 feet tall.  But there is nothing to make it even appear that there is a second floor of an actual building.  We are pushing hard for a second functional floor, but even if they don't lease it for office space, at least make it a real second floor with windows that could plausibly at some time in the future be used as a functional second floor.

https://nextstl.com/2012/07/how-to-get-a-cvs-that-doesn-t-suck/

https://nextstl.com/2013/04/lindell-cvs/

[Conan71]

What I've been asking for is a unique design, not slight modifications to their regular box.  Here are examples from the internet.  Not great in my opinion, but loads better.  The starting point is that the small area plan requires a building that is two stories in height.  CVS is saying the building will be 30 feet tall.  But there is nothing to make it even appear that there is a second floor of an actual building.  We are pushing hard for a second functional floor, but even if they don't lease it for office space, at least make it a real second floor with windows that could plausibly at some time in the future be used as a functional second floor.

https://nextstl.com/2012/07/how-to-get-a-cvs-that-doesn-t-suck/

https://nextstl.com/2013/04/lindell-cvs/

I'm sure they are putting in a 400 square foot manager's loft on the "second story".

What a steaming pile of dung this has turned into.