South Midtown?

[Breadburner]

I will allow a little East of Yale Between 15th and 51st.....

[Tulsa Zephyr]

On a similar note, I saw a Tulsa World article about an event which occurred at 71st and Peoria, which TW called "west Tulsa"...

[Conan71]

On a similar note, I saw a Tulsa World article about an event which occurred at 71st and Peoria, which TW called "west Tulsa"...

It’s in Council District 2, might account for some of the confusion.

[BKDotCom]

Tulsa's a big boring grid... let's just go with it.

I live in D-4 (think bingo or battleship)

[cannon_fodder]

East of Yale is not  Midtown. Definitely not the portion south of 15th. South of 15th the houses are known for their mid-century modern styling, large single story floor plans, and were sold as "suburban style living" back in the day. It was constructed to be an alternative to midtown.

Even between Yale and Harvard, calling it midtown is a bit of a stretch. There are pockets that certainly are midtown (between I-244 and 15th, for example) but many areas that are not (between 36th and 41st). I live near 31st and Harvard, but comparing that "midtown" to Maple Ridge or 21st and Lewis...  I'd say the classic midtown ends at Harvard and ends at 41st as the southern most edge. "Expanded" midtown ends at Yale and ends at 51st. I refuse to call anything south of 51st midtown. East of Yale is very dubious, Sheridan gets ridiculous.

"South Midtown" to me means Brookside. 

[rebound]

East of Yale is not  Midtown. Definitely not the portion south of 15th. South of 15th the houses are known for their mid-century modern styling, large single story floor plans, and were sold as "suburban style living" back in the day. It was constructed to be an alternative to midtown.

Even between Yale and Harvard, calling it midtown is a bit of a stretch. There are pockets that certainly are midtown (between I-244 and 15th, for example) but many areas that are not (between 36th and 41st). I live near 31st and Harvard, but comparing that "midtown" to Maple Ridge or 21st and Lewis...  I'd say the classic midtown ends at Harvard and ends at 41st as the southern most edge. "Expanded" midtown ends at Yale and ends at 51st. I refuse to call anything south of 51st midtown. East of Yale is very dubious, Sheridan gets ridiculous.

"South Midtown" to me means Brookside. 

Everything above, and particularly this: "I'd say the classic midtown ends at Harvard and ends at 41st as the southern most edge".

When we were looking at areas to move into last year, we looked hard at all the various areas. (and there are a lot of great ones, each with their own character)  But finally, we decided we wanted to live in "old midtown" (our name), which to us was inside the 41st and Harvard boundary.  While there are similar pockets outside these limits, this seems like the line where classic midtown ends.

[AquaMan]

I can't tell what makes you guys so sure of what and where the "real" midtown is but I will note that you are using period of time and architecture as the main criteria. That makes your designations arguable. You can find mixtures of style and age all over town in pockets as the city grew in spastic spurts.

When those areas around 41st & Harvard and 51st and Yale were developed they were considered east and south. In the late fifties, 51st and Yale was the edge of town and the only expressways available were I-44 and the "Bee-line". It took a lot of time to go from downtown to 51st and Harvard to visit Southern Hills. Now, you can get anywhere in town in about 15 minutes or less using one of the expressways surrounding the city, I-44, I-244, 51/64, 169, Creek and 75. The grid system for neighborhoods ended about the time Ranch Acres and Southern Hills began.

Its easier to determine "old Tulsa" by those two criteria. It seems to me, midtown is anything inside that circle of expressways. That area offers lots of different styles and ages.

It is what you want it to be I guess.

[carltonplace]

I can't tell what makes you guys so sure of what and where the "real" midtown is but I will note that you are using period of time and architecture as the main criteria. That makes your designations arguable. You can find mixtures of style and age all over town in pockets as the city grew in spastic spurts.

When those areas around 41st & Harvard and 51st and Yale were developed they were considered east and south. In the late fifties, 51st and Yale was the edge of town and the only expressways available were I-44 and the "Bee-line". It took a lot of time to go from downtown to 51st and Harvard to visit Southern Hills. Now, you can get anywhere in town in about 15 minutes or less using one of the expressways surrounding the city, I-44, I-244, 51/64, 169, Creek and 75. The grid system for neighborhoods ended about the time Ranch Acres and Southern Hills began.

Its easier to determine "old Tulsa" by those two criteria. It seems to me, midtown is anything inside that circle of expressways. That area offers lots of different styles and ages.

It is what you want it to be I guess.

I'd agree with your boundaries (though I feel that 169 is east Tulsa), and I agree that the boundaries are somewhat fungible. But calling 81st St "South Midtown" is a reach. It's clearly an attempt to attach their part of town to an area that they perceive is somehow cooler then where they choose to live.
There's no need to borrow perceived hipness...assign a name to your area and then make it cool on its own merit. This is a very pretty part of town with its wide boulevards and mature trees and rolling hills and large homes on large lots.

Why not "Southtown" or "Eighty-above" or "Big@$$houseville".

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

My neighborhood is called Southside. It includes Lee school at 21st and Cincinnati. It was developed around 1910. So am I living in old South Tulsa?

In terms of the pre-automobile (for the most part) and when Utica Square was considered a "suburban" shopping mall, yes that was old old South Tulsa. After the automobile became ubiquitous, the definition rightly changed as tulsa expanded.

For decades now, the definition of midtown refers to the older areas of Tulsa, as many on here mention, from Riverside to Yale and from I244 south to near 41st/51st.

Furthermore, there is a huge difference between the pre-40's and post-40's neighborhoods where development, architecture and walkability all took a nose-dive. I strongly prefer the pre-40's neighborhoods (Maple Ridge, Florence Park, Terwilliger, Swan Lake) as opposed to the later neighborhoods, mostly south and east, which really aren't well known by name for a reason.

Real estate prices in those old neighborhoods reflect the demand for the classic style and limited supply compared to neighborhoods around, say, 31st and Harvard or 41st and Yale. Anyone calling 61st "south midtown" knows about the prestige of midtown and the cost, but can't afford to live there. Probably young people who grew up in far south Tulsa who think they need 3000 square feet for 2 people.

[AquaMan]

All the homes in this area had driveways and separate garages meant for model T's. I also see occasional concrete posts with eyehooks to tie up horses and wagons. My home has servants quarters too. Presumptuous for the size of the home but deemed necessary by the builder. Cars were pretty ubiquitous when most of the area was developed though. Owen Park, and near northside developments often had no driveways and were serviced by alleys.

It would be hard to not classify Ranch Acres or Bolewood as anything but midtown though. Even though it has no sidewalks, curvy roads and not pedestrian oriented at all. Still, a lovely midtown neighborhood.

I agree its silly to call areas south of I-44 "south- midtown" but that's likely originated and driven by Realtors hoping to cash in on perceived trends, not homeowners. Anything east of Memorial is still east Tulsa to me. But I understand its a relative thing. To those living at 81st and Harvard who have visited gated communities at 101st and Yale, it seems more "south midtown" than south. To those who have looked at Wagoner county, 129th seems midtown. That's why I prefer to use development names or nearby landmarks. Shadow Mountain, Silver Chase, Woodland Hills, etc.

Inside the expressways almost works. 169 is too far east. Between the river and 75 is obviously West Tulsa. But its close.

[Conan71]

Lowe’s calls their store at 15th & Yale their “Midtown” Location.  I always considered my Lortondale house at 27th & Yale as midtown and have thought of my home in Wedgwood as the same.  I suppose my current house is in one of those transitional areas where midtown starts to become east Tulsa, though when I think of east Tulsa I think of parts east of Sheridan.  I’ve heard the Farm Shopping center described as midtown before.

“Midtown” seems to be one of those terms that is in the the lexicon of the beholder. 

[SXSW]

Midtown = (N) Downtown/I-244, (S) I-44, (E) Sheridan, (W) the Arkansas River

Honestly the best name for south Tulsa between I-44 and the Creek is Uptown.  Downtown > Midtown > Uptown 
It even reflects the topography of that area. 

Growing up we called the area south of the Creek "Deep South Tulsa"

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Uptown is the area between SoBo (18th & Boston) and the IDL.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Cars were pretty ubiquitous when most of the area was developed though.

Not compared to post-WWII. In the early 20's (When most of the original midtown neighborhoods were developed), there were 86 vehicles per 1,000 population and most families did not own one and that shaped the concentration of those early development drastically (lot size, road shape, side walks, etc).

After the 40s, most families owned a car and there were 600+ vehicles per 1,000 population. Suddenly lot sizes increased, roads got wider, side walks were not standard and developments sprawled. Now there are over 800 cars per 1,000 population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle#United_States

[carltonplace]

Uptown is the area between SoBo (18th & Boston) and the IDL.

^^ Truth.
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