Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[Vashta Nerada]

Sergeant Clay Ballenger with The Tulsa FOP said, "We've had to make a lot of cutbacks over the years...from amount of patrol to closing police stations, not being open 24/7, on and on and on. Cutting back detective units and investigations, cutting back on patrol officers, not being able to patrol neighborhoods like we would like because we just go from call to call; all of those things are going to be fixed."

When was it ever not like that?  Robbing the "Vision" to cover fiscal irresponsibility is not what this should be about. 

[TheArtist]

Yeah. Screw those south Tulsa people. Never mind that the city approved 3,000 apartments and three hospitals on a f'ing two lane country road.

More people go through that intersection than 41st and Peoria. Or 21st and Yale. or 31st and Lewis.

Who cares? Midtowners sure don't.

Yes perhaps the city shouldn't have approved that there.  And the city should have approved allowing more dense development and mixed use development zoning, and got rid of minimum parking requirements, etc in the rest of the city a LONG time ago to help alleviate sprawl and promote infill and transit use.  There are over 300 new homes and several hotels and many new businesses going in within merely a couple of blocks of my business (and lots more in other areas of downtown) and guess what.... no new roads, arterial, neighborhood, or otherwise were needed, no new intersections needed to be widened or roads widened, or plowed or patched, etc.

One other note, in the older parts of town there are "half mile" streets and grid streets which help alleviate traffic from the one mile arterial ones.

And, I find it interesting that we are still sprawling and wanting more "road miles" within the city even though our population is not growing and may very likely be in decline? That doesn't sound good.  Perhaps some areas of town are growing less dense or are emptying out and moving to other new areas which seems to me that would imply there are still roads in the old areas, but now we need more in the new areas which equals at best, about the same amount of people or less paying for more and more roads, more areas to police, etc.  And statistically we already have way more "lane miles" per the population than many of our peer cities.  And we are a comparatively poor city.  Then we wonder why we can't afford to keep our roads in shape or why we would have to pay so much?

[AquaMan]

I want to be excited about the package as a whole and the transit particularly. Instead, I worry about the timing of the thing and the results of our derelict state leadership. Within the next three months the reality of our state budget shortfall is going to manifest itself with more bloodletting. I believe we are some $750 million short and counting. That's damn near a billion dollars short.

The leadership is resolute in their political belief (religion) that taxes are the work of the devil, that is to say, liberals and democrats. Since the city, and the state, are in population stasis, we have no other means of revenue growth to pay our bills. Not excessive, bloated government bills either. We aren't going to be able to adequately fund basic requirements of road maintenance, infrastructure, health, education, environmental etc. Instead of dealing with that failure to legislate responsibly, the first dozen or so bills in the state house are from the Sally Kern cult dealing with gay marriage, unisex bathrooms, etc   Move over Mississippi!

The same governor that made sure the state's more progressive cities could not increase the minimum wage, that cut education funding while our teachers drove over our state borders to make more money, that failed to increase Medicare because it was related to the ACA, now says that Boren's plan to raise money for funding education, wait for it...."EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM". How? Why? Unless she means, she is the problem.

Dewey is a big part of our problem locally. But its not his personality, its what he represents. Inherited power and wealth. That is Tulsa. Look around your city. I drive about 200 miles a day all over this city. Large amounts of downed light poles that weren't lit anyway. I saw a car knock one over on Tisdale during a snow storm two years ago. Its still down and still laying on the ground. Pine and Apache east of Lewis might as well be gravel roads. A minor mishap on an expressway causes miles of backup with few alternatives for escape. Pot holes, washboard surfaces, busted curbs, rusting traffic signals and an increasing lack of courtesy by drivers. My favorite sign of a diminishing community is, ironically, push in signs. They are popping up all over as small businesses ignore the law because there is so little enforcement. And that attitude permeates a community. I do understand why he wants to fund more police and fire (besides courting their favor). He will need them to curtail the possible surge in crime when people start losing their jobs.

We need young wage earners at all levels of education and training to grow, yet we are well known across the region as a "low pay" city in a low pay state with very little labor protection and few opportunities for culture and entertainment. A bedroom city/state if you will. This proposal gives some incentive to stay and suffer through this terrible leadership. Without that growth we're just fighting gravity.

It is in this context that the Vision plan is presented to voters. That is why they wanted it out so quickly before the population feels the burn. And that is why it will likely fail. In business you are not judged so much by your failures or your successes but more by your failure to recognize and seize opportunity. I applaud the council's work at listening to us and I will vote for it but I am disappointed in my state.

[Markk]

I am still a bit confused. Is the 7.8 million proposed for Vensel Park and Vensel Boat Docks part of GO bonds or the V2025? Vensel is at 111th and Delaware. No need for a boat dock if the dams aren't approved is there?

Does anyone here know what the final number was for the Mohawk soccer complex, and what that funding will actually buy?

[PonderInc]

If you have a few minutes, there's s nice podcast by the Frontier talking to GT about the Vision package. It highlights some of the big components and explains the logic behind some of the needs/choices. Mostly it's an example of why GT will be a good mayor. He's able to speak clearly and rationally, he's gracious about compromises that have occurred, he's respectful and understanding of the different opinions (and the different life experiences) of the citizens of Tulsa...

It's worth a listen:
https://www.readfrontier.com/spotlight/listen-frontier-talking-vision-2025-with-g-t-bynum/

[AquaMan]

That was well done. Answered a lot of my questions. He was calm (obviously from his involvement), and respectful. He needs to be the front man for this not the county or the mayors office. I don't think the public had the input I would have liked to have seen but considering how small election turnouts are anyway that may be all that could be expected.

His remarks about the history or return on investment for the dams wasn't as strong as it could have been but the river investment will undoubtedly result in more attention to the river area. With insightful management that will payoff.

For Tulsa's future, I hope this plays out.

note: Is Tulsa really that dangerous? I wasn't aware we had such a violent crime rate.

[RecycleMichael]

Does anyone here know what the final number was for the Mohawk soccer complex, and what that funding will actually buy?

$3.5 million made it in and the rest is a top listed contingency.

Better access and parking are first and some new lights for more fields is first.

I lobbied for this and am glad it made it in.

Here is the list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2U63fXBlFo

[Red Arrow]

Gawd...  There is so much crap mixed in with some things I believe are very important.

Something everyone can agree with.

[Red Arrow]

Denver has Mountains, why not Tulsa?

Do you not remember "Ski the Tulsa Mountains" from John Erling on KRMG?

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Vision project aims to save Turkey Mountain land once targeted for outlet mall

The Vision tax renewal going before voters April 5 targets land near Turkey Mountain that was the focus of public outcry last year.
The $7.6 million set aside for Turkey Mountain would purchase land that has been set aside for the River Parks Authority to take ownership, contingent on approval from voters.
Councilor G.T. Bynum, who orchestrated the river-infrastructure portion of Vision renewal, said the plan to purchase the land with Vision dollars came from a combination of citizen and River Parks proposals.
"It does both land acquisition and trail improvements, as well as campsites that people can utilize to make it even more of an outdoor recreational attraction than it is now," Bynum said. "They (Turkey Mountain amenities) draw a tremendous crowd during the daytime now, and this would really improve what's there."
The project, in part, was a response to opposition of a proposed outlet mall at the site. Plans for the mall have since shifted to Jenks.
"The old saying, 'You don't appreciate what you have until you almost lose it,' probably applies here," Bynum said. "The developers galvanized the people who love it and use it a lot, but it forced people to be more creative about it."
The addition would expand Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness by about 50 acres after about $6 million goes to acquiring the land for River Parks with the remainder going to amenities.
The project is just one of many Arkansas River corridor infrastructure projects that came out of Bynum's river-infrastructure task force, including two low-water dams to create lakes, trails, levee rehabilitation and parks near the river.
The low-water dams planned in the proposal are for a south Tulsa/Jenks dam to be built just south of the Creek Turnpike and a complete rebuild of Zink Dam north of 31st Street.
In total, Vision is designed to put about $144 million toward the projects.
"What we're trying to do with the river is not just have this disjointed lake-here-and-lake-there approach," Bynum said. "We're trying to look at it as a corridor that has been underutilized and under appreciated for half a century."
Bynum has previously said the river, as it exists today through Tulsa, is the result of damming Keystone Lake west of Sand Springs in the 1960s and is in need of an upgrade.
"When Zink Lake is at its capacity and operating correctly, you'll be able to take a kayak down the white-water flume and down channels in the natural river all the way to Turkey Mountain," Bynum said. "That is a tremendous opportunity that people haven't had since the 1960s."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/vision-project-aims-to-save-turkey-mountain-land-once-targeted/article_73bc6489-fe14-561e-80af-ce80b98ea10a.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

If you have a few minutes, there's s nice podcast by the Frontier talking to GT about the Vision package. It highlights some of the big components and explains the logic behind some of the needs/choices. Mostly it's an example of why GT will be a good mayor. He's able to speak clearly and rationally, he's gracious about compromises that have occurred, he's respectful and understanding of the different opinions (and the different life experiences) of the citizens of Tulsa...

It's worth a listen:
https://www.readfrontier.com/spotlight/listen-frontier-talking-vision-2025-with-g-t-bynum/

6/10ths of a cent on $1,000 should be $6.00.  At about 3 minutes, he says 6 cents....maybe he needs some help with the math...


Recruitment and retention!!  Good sound bite phrase for what I have been b$tching about for years - the fact that all but 1 of the kids has had to move out of state to get not just jobs, but true careers!  Get their kids (my grand and great grand kids) properly educated.  Get actual help for a couple of mild autistics (while Oklahoma focuses on getting old white guys their jollies with coverage for Viagra!)


Now, if we could just get past the idea that old people aren't valuable employees....


I am still skeptical about lakes on the river, but he does make a smooth case for it.  Then he advances casino as a benefit to the city...well, ya can't be right about everything.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I should have taken a picture of this last weekend, but I went on a weekend 'getaway' to KC.  Our first stop consisted of the free Boulevard Brewery tour.  I was surprised to see in the back parking lot a bunch of charging stations ( I remember seeing 'EC' painted on the ground and the terminals ).  I thought 'wow, MO isn't exactly California, so I was kind of surprised.

I've always said that if work took me away to a different location, Kansas City would be OK with me.  I did hard time in Texas (3 years in Houston) but the times I've visited KC I've thoroughly enjoyed.  If I had to transfer for a job, and had that option, I'd take it in a minute.

KC is an interesting city - MO and KS.  Haven't been there for quite a while, but big piece of the family is from there and many are still there - the ones that are still alive!  I spent quite a bit of time there when a kid, and into my 20's/30's.  KC, KS is kind of run down - the gloss is worn off.  MO seems to have the critical mass in the area....

Only thing keeping me away - and Olathe has a lot of Electrical/Electronics stuff going on - is the winter.  Even with 'global warming' it is just too bloody cold for me to move there!  Even Tulsa gets too cold!!  Am working to get on a program where spend spring/fall here, then winter where warmer and summer where cooler.



And while we are at it, just thought I would throw in this little diversion for everyone's listening enjoyment....  I think I may like this version better than the original....

Disturbed.   Sound of Silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4

And if you get through that - should be easy...it's good listening - ya might appreciate;

The Greatest Hit of Disturbed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66gSvNeqevg


Enjoy!  Have a good day!!

[AquaMan]

6/10ths of a cent on $1,000 should be $6.00.  At about 3 minutes, he says 6 cents....maybe he needs some help with the math...


Recruitment and retention!!  Good sound bite phrase for what I have been b$tching about for years - the fact that all but 1 of the kids has had to move out of state to get not just jobs, but true careers!  Get their kids (my grand and great grand kids) properly educated.  Get actual help for a couple of mild autistics (while Oklahoma focuses on getting old white guys their jollies with coverage for Viagra!)


Now, if we could just get past the idea that old people aren't valuable employees....


I am still skeptical about lakes on the river, but he does make a smooth case for it.  Then he advances casino as a benefit to the city...well, ya can't be right about everything.

He did smooth the penetration a bit. Of course you could always travel by kayak from the dam to Turkey mountain when the water was high enough to fill Zink lake. You simply had to portage around the low water dam. Even before the Keystone dam I had a friend who as an Eagle Scout floated the entire length from Sand Springs to Bixby with nothing more than a canoe and some beer.

The real problem in OK is as you described. Too willing to sell off our future for morality today and too few well paying jobs. Throw in the disposal of older learned labor and you have the lower tier states. Politics is all they have left.

There is a lot I don't like about the proposals but enough I do to make it seem worthwhile. Compromise is such a b*tch.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The real problem in OK is as you described. Too willing to sell off our future for morality today and too few well paying jobs. Throw in the disposal of older learned labor and you have the lower tier states. Politics is all they have left.

Three local companies have jobs currently advertised - one of them for over 2 years, one for over a year - whose descriptions are written as if it were addressed, "Dear Heiron..."  Background, expertise, training, patents in the field.... Actually got an interview with one of them not long ago and have talked more than once on the phone to the others.  (And no, I am nowhere as "prickly" in real life as I get here from time to time - I can almost be personable!)  Absolutely no doubt that have not been hired because too old and they want someone at half price.

One other had a headhunter involved and he called to 'verify' my desired salary range - "Didn't you tell me you wanted 55% of what we were talking about last week...?"  They found a kid 1 year out of school at 55%....

Oh, well...guess they won't be getting any good new products or patents for the portfolio...  Ironic thing - one of them is getting "beat up" by corporate because there have been insufficient (none) new products coming out of Engineering for about 5 years now - just some light tweeking of existing products.... I could apparently help them with their R & D department management, too!

[Conan71]

The more GT gets to speak about the package, the better it starts to sound.  It also is beginning to sound like Tulsa has a silent benefactor who is willing to invest even more $$ in Tulsa, including the maintenance and operations reserve fund for the dams.

There are still some items I don't care as much about and some I wish had made it to the ED package, but overall, there's some great potential in here.