Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[Conan71]

Green space and recreation don't fill the wallets of those on committees or lobbying those on committees making decisions.

And green space is kryptonite to development types.

[TheArtist]

I am really curious as to what happened to the National Art Deco Museum proposal we submitted the second time around for 4.5 mill.  We even found some property in the Gunboat Park area (smack dab between Boston Avenue Church and Wharehouse Market buildings, right on Rt 66 and on the new transit route, etc.)  And we showed how it could be practically self sustaining as well.  

It really baffles me.  The "big guy" museums and such will pay huge sums to do what I would do for this museum for practically free.  Heck I am the kind of person they hire to do a lot of the stuff.  And we came up with some really unique and creative ideas to build it and fund it.  I would turn that 4.5 mill into easily 80 mill worth of museum.  

I run into people all the time who have told me all my life "you can't do this or that, or that is not how things are done, etc."  Usually because they don't understand what I am actually doing.  And even when I succeed,,, they are still perplexed lol.  But that is what I do, thats been my job for over 30 years. Creative thinking and solution finding.  

Sad thing is some, including some of our city councilors will cry out about how we need "Creative Class" type people.   Then when you present them with a creative and unique idea... they say "Well that won't work because thats not how things are done. etc."  Which absolutely makes no sense. How its always been done, is NOT creative lol.

If it won't work one way, and people say it can't be done that way...well thats when I do it in a way others aren't doing and make it work that way! lol


You can't paint.

You can't make a living as an artist.

You have never had a store you can't make retail work downtown.

You can't start a museum.

You have never even thrown a party at your house, how can you think you will throw a huge fundraising event.

Etc. etc. etc.

Well I keep doing what people say can't be done, and people still often can't figure out how I managed to do it lol.

Think outside the box, turn obstacles into creative opportunities, and do that over and over and over until until something wonderful happens.



There aren't many people like me with my set of talents.  Why the councilors can't see the opportunity they have missed, with what I was willing and able to do for Tulsa, is so unfortunate. People keep judging me and my ideas by how "they would have done it or how something is usually done" and then say it can't be done... Well they were right, it couldn't be done the way they would have done it.  And I wouldn't have done it that way. I see what I want done, and find a creative unique way to do it.  

That National Art Deco Museum for 4.5 mill would have been more astounding than what Gilcrease would do with their 70 mill, cause they are going to do it the usual way and throw a lot of money down a hole paying "retail" when I "the creative people they hire" could do it below "wholesale".  

Rant over lol

[sgrizzle]

I don't agree with some of the the things on the list and some of the things that didn't make the cut, but I think it's a decent mix. The public safety part is the number 1 concern for me. I don't like the idea of the city operating budget effectively jumping in size so much.

[Hayduke]

I worry that if the package is divided as to the river, economic development, and public safety, the only thing that would pass would be the public safety component given the irrational culture of fear currently enveloping this country, especially in this area of the country.  Selling more cops to protect us from all the bad people out there is a lot easier than selling art museum renovations and public transportation initiatives to the voter base in this city.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm very disappointed in this.

A friend is back in Tulsa for a project.  She lives outside Denver.

She mentioned how real estate costs have exploded in the Denver area.  I asked her if she knew why.

She read an article that 500 - 800 people are moving to Colorado a day.  (her info, not mine)

The biggest reason for the housing boom is that young college graduates are finding a cool place to live and then finding a job...

Gosh...why isn't that happening in Tulsa?

That has been going on since I was in high school....60's.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You have never even thrown a party at your house, how can you think you will throw a huge fundraising event.

Etc. etc. etc.

We can help you with that....throw a big party at your house and invite all of us...kind of a practice event...!!

[TheArtist]

We can help you with that....throw a big party at your house and invite all of us...kind of a practice event...!!

The point was, I have done all the things people said I couldn't do lol.

I have done plenty of fundraising events now.  I think the best compliment I got was from the guy at the Union Depot who works setting up the tables and dance floor and such.  The next day after one of our museum fundraising events when we came to get our stuff, he came up to me and said, " I have seen a lot of events here, I think yours was probably the best I have ever seen."  That made me feel good, especially since I had until that time never really been to any fundraisers for any other organization myself to see how they did things.

[Red Arrow]

since I had until that time never really been to any fundraisers for any other organization myself to see how they did things.

Which kind of proves your point.

[CoffeeBean]

What an epic fail.

The public safety/permanent tax is a joke.

There is no wow-factor.

Opportunity wasted. 

Terrible, terrible disappointment.

[SXSW]

What does $269M get us for "public safety"?  More officers I assume but what else?  I agree that should be a separate deal.

I'm one of the few on here that supports the dams.  I support the other econ dev proposals but definitely think they missed the boat on any real game changers.  I think the process of getting public input was good and would like to see more of that.

Hoping for more of a mass transit push with the next transportation tax proposal, especially streetcar.  OKC will have one running by then so maybe it will have more support. 

[Dspike]

The World article states that the $269M for public safety (and making that part of the tax permanent) buys 160 additional police officers and 70 additional firemen.

"Public safety tax — $268.8 million: a permanent tax that would hire 160 police officers, 70 firefighters, street maintenance crews and 911 operators."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/council-and-mayor-hammer-out-vision-package-but-more-work/article_87a58209-65c3-553f-818a-d9472420e1f9.html?mode=jqm

[patric]

The World article states that the $269M for public safety (and making that part of the tax permanent) buys 160 additional police officers and 70 additional firemen.

An earlier World story pointed out that police academies are meant to replace patrol officers who are due for promotions, and whats left over become new patrol officers.  Sometimes that actually ends up with fewer patrol officers and a glut of specialty squads looking for something to do.

[Bamboo World]

So TulsaNow folks, what do you say? Is this Vision package worth supporting?

• River: NO
• Public Safety: NO
• Economic Dev: Maybe, depending on how the ballot question/questions is/are structured

[natedog784]

So TulsaNow folks, what do you say? Is this Vision package worth supporting?

I will be voting "no" on all three portions as currently proposed/structured.

This is a first for me for a city improvements package.

In my view, there has been a colossal failure of leadership from the council and the mayor.
What is being proposed is straight out of a sausage factory with pet projects and items that belong in an operating budget, not a capital improvements package.

[Red Arrow]

I live in Bixby so I can only express my opinion here.

I would vote against the river dams.  I think public transit is more important.  Of course I favor electric powered, rail guided, real trolleys.  I also like Artist's proposal for the Art Deco Museum, something uniquely Tulsa.

Public safety needs to be a separate issue from anything labeled Vision anything.  If Tulsa needs the money for public safety on the sales tax, make it a stand alone issue.

Green space and parks is important, more important than another generic big box store.  We have enough in the Tulsa/Suburbs.  I agree with the idea that unless we bring in outside money, we are just shuffling money around and wasting development potential.

I wish I could help, but not enough to give up my big lot in suburbia.  (The house is only about 1500 sq ft)  No McMansion here.