Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[swake]

The more GT gets to speak about the package, the better it starts to sound.  It also is beginning to sound like Tulsa has a silent benefactor who is willing to invest even more $$ in Tulsa, including the maintenance and operations reserve fund for the dams.

There are still some items I don't care as much about and some I wish had made it to the ED package, but overall, there's some great potential in here.

I think those benefactors are going to be the city of Jenks' TIF on the outlet mall site (which already exists) and the Creek Nation with the new Chief.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

The more GT gets to speak about the package, the better it starts to sound.  It also is beginning to sound like Tulsa has a silent benefactor who is willing to invest even more $$ in Tulsa, including the maintenance and operations reserve fund for the dams.

There are still some items I don't care as much about and some I wish had made it to the ED package, but overall, there's some great potential in here.

After mulling it over for a while, I feel this is about as good of a package as we were going to get. The south dam being contingent on outside sources is a big sell to me as that was one of my primary concerns (Tulsans paying for Jenks' and Riverspirit's dam).

I would prefer if they separated the safety tax into another package, but regardless, we do need to increase the police force badly as crime is ridiculously high. Perhaps this package could bring in more jobs (even if mostly temporary construction) and thus reduce crime somewhat and be an economic boost at a time when the oil business is so far down. The Rapid Transit and downtown hub are the parts I like the best. The river really will be nice, even if I am skeptical about the ROI.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

While I am disappointed most of the truly visionary projects were left out (Art Deco Museum, Raw Space, Sports Multiplex south of TCC), it will be great for Gilcrease. When I found out TU is matching funds (or at least $50 million), that made that project much more attractive. TU does well developing things and Gilcrease deserves to be a top-notch destination as they have a massive unused reserve of art and artifacts. Adding 100,000 square feet (so 247,000 square feet total) and the other plans could make it a place many Tulsans want to go frequently and even more of a must-see for visitors. It will be a bit like Tulsa's version of the Getty Museum.

[PonderInc]

One of the arguments for Gilcrease is that they have a collection worth $2 billion, but can only display 2% of their collection at any one time.

A fun fact that GT mentioned is that the top 10 items at Gilcrease are worth more than the entire collection at Crystal Bridges.  We have the single greatest collection of Native American and western art/artifacts in the world, and nobody really thinks about it.

That sort of puts things in perspective.

[Conan71]

One of the arguments for Gilcrease is that they have a collection worth $2 billion, but can only display 2% of their collection at any one time.

A fun fact that GT mentioned is that the top 10 items at Gilcrease are worth more than the entire collection at Crystal Bridges.  We have the single greatest collection of Native American artifacts in the world, and nobody really thinks about it.

That sort of puts things in perspective.

If there eventually is connectivity to the trail system from Gilcrease to The Gathering Place, Gilcrease would truly be on even ground with Crystal Bridges.  This was either in the proposal they presented or it was subsequently mentioned as a possibility. 

Both times we've visited Crystal Bridges, we've taken bikes.  The paved and unpaved trails in the vicinity of CB are truly something to behold.

The view from Gilcrease is amazing and I do see huge potential there.  Would I like to see this much money spread around to various smaller projects which would directly relate to job creation?  Yes.  Can you really sneeze at a matched funding commitment?  Not in this case.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

One of the arguments for Gilcrease is that they have a collection worth $2 billion, but can only display 2% of their collection at any one time.

A fun fact that GT mentioned is that the top 10 items at Gilcrease are worth more than the entire collection at Crystal Bridges.  We have the single greatest collection of Native American artifacts in the world, and nobody really thinks about it.

That sort of puts things in perspective.

I agree. It would be amazing to see more of it. I've been several times and it is nice to see the rotating displays and revisit what is there, but it would be great to have an expanse to explore and see much more of the collection.

[patric]

(while Oklahoma focuses on getting old white guys their jollies with coverage for Viagra!)

Thats a problem?


but honestly, is this a sincere product of soul-searching or just the smoke and mirrors to distract from new more-or-less permanent taxes for department operations?

[AquaMan]

It is a product of the leadership Tulsa now has which represents who we are as a city. So yes it is deception but deception of our own device.

added: I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean that for once during my lifetime in Tulsa we have government that pretty much represents its constituents in values, beliefs, politics. The council form is working. Each area of town has a voice. Whether that's good or not remains to be proved.  The mayor represents the old guard of wealth, power, family and conservative family values (fwiw). So, we couldn't have expected anything different than what we ended up with.

Unfortunately there are many progressive, erudite, independent, innovative, sophisticated, big city, west coast, east coast, European, Scandinavian, Fascist, Socialist (shall I go on?) viewpoints that are simply not a dominant part of our demographic makeup. And that's where new and different comes from.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Thats a problem?


but honestly, is this a sincere product of soul-searching or just the smoke and mirrors to distract from new more-or-less permanent taxes for department operations?

No.  If accompanied by addressing real, serious, health issues of younger people too.  After all, the old ones are going away soon, either dying or moving to Sun City - they should be focusing on their walkers and not being such a huge drain on resources and really...sex??  Come on...get real!!  And that starts at about 45 to 50.

The future depends on the new ones...

Old and Busted versus New Hotness....

[heironymouspasparagus]

One of the arguments for Gilcrease is that they have a collection worth $2 billion, but can only display 2% of their collection at any one time.

A fun fact that GT mentioned is that the top 10 items at Gilcrease are worth more than the entire collection at Crystal Bridges.  We have the single greatest collection of Native American and western art/artifacts in the world, and nobody really thinks about it.

That sort of puts things in perspective.

I wonder if part of the problem of relative awareness between Gilcrease and CB is just a propaganda issue?  I hear about CB from time to time - people talking - can't even remember when and where exactly (not TV) but I don't ever hear anyone talk about Gilcrease (except me, talking to anyone/everyone who will listen in family/friends/acquaintances group).

I have really liked Gilcrease and Philbrook since I was a kid, and chat them up every chance I get.  And Woolaroc.  Don't ever hear anyone talk about any of them - within my hearing range, anyway.

[Conan71]

I wonder if part of the problem of relative awareness between Gilcrease and CB is just a propaganda issue?  I hear about CB from time to time - people talking - can't even remember when and where exactly (not TV) but I don't ever hear anyone talk about Gilcrease (except me, talking to anyone/everyone who will listen in family/friends/acquaintances group).

I have really liked Gilcrease and Philbrook since I was a kid, and chat them up every chance I get.  And Woolaroc.  Don't ever hear anyone talk about any of them - within my hearing range, anyway.

It's the myopia of living close to things.  People don't think about the gems in their own backyard near as much as what someone else has.  Traveling to an attraction adds to the cool factor I'd guess.  This is my perception anyhow- I don't think Gilcrease does as great a job at marketing and programming as Philbrook does.  My wife and I make time to go to Festival of Trees every year.  We've done that since the year we started dating.  I've taken my mother to the restaurant at Philbrook for Mother's Day brunch in the past.

Philbrook for some reason has more awareness in my conscience than Gilcrease or Woolaroc and I don't think Woolaroc is under-promoted by any means.  I'm only vaguely aware there is a restaurant at Gilcrease.  I have no idea what they have on exhibit at the moment.  The last time I was there was either for a park board meeting or to look at replacing a boiler.  I really don't recall.  For being a more-or-less private entity, I'd think Gilcrease would do a better job at advertising and marketing not just to people on an email or donor list.  I'm on neither with Philbrook, yet I somehow know when there's a new exhibit.

Apple V. orange, but it's kind of like how you never knew any Tulsans who ate at Casa Bonita.  It was always the in-laws from Arkansas who wanted to eat there when in town.

[AquaMan]

note: Is Tulsa really that dangerous? I wasn't aware we had such a violent crime rate.

Well, we don't actually in spite of our Mayor's belief to the contrary. We didn't make the top 100 ranked by violent crimes per 1000 population in cities over 25000. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/top100dangerous/#
However, fear Ardmore and Lawton.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's the myopia of living close to things.  People don't think about the gems in their own backyard near as much as what someone else has.  Traveling to an attraction adds to the cool factor I'd guess.  This is my perception anyhow- I don't think Gilcrease does as great a job at marketing and programming as Philbrook does.  My wife and I make time to go to Festival of Trees every year.  We've done that since the year we started dating.  I've taken my mother to the restaurant at Philbrook for Mother's Day brunch in the past.

Philbrook for some reason has more awareness in my conscience than Gilcrease or Woolaroc and I don't think Woolaroc is under-promoted by any means.  I'm only vaguely aware there is a restaurant at Gilcrease.  I have no idea what they have on exhibit at the moment.  The last time I was there was either for a park board meeting or to look at replacing a boiler.  I really don't recall.  For being a more-or-less private entity, I'd think Gilcrease would do a better job at advertising and marketing not just to people on an email or donor list.  I'm on neither with Philbrook, yet I somehow know when there's a new exhibit.

Apple V. orange, but it's kind of like how you never knew any Tulsans who ate at Casa Bonita.  It was always the in-laws from Arkansas who wanted to eat there when in town.

I ate at Casa Bonita when a kid a LOT.  Only place could get filled up!  Always started out at Sandy's Hamburgers (21st, west of Sheridan) after school - 8 cheeseburgers for $1.00 - then go home for dinner.  After that, always needed a snack, so would go to CB for two or three plates, then a dozen tacos or so...  Cannot imagine HOW the parents could afford to feed me...

And only weighed 155 lbs.  Guess I was that active...

[rebound]

It is a product of the leadership Tulsa now has which represents who we are as a city. So yes it is deception but deception of our own device.

"We are all just prisoners here, of our own device..."

Got me thinking that "Hotel Oklahoma" would be even more more sad and despairing than the original.   "... the last thing I remember, I was running for the door"  said the majority of our young professionals.    I see glimmers of hope, and I'll push and prod and help as I can, but I'm still a pessimist at heart as far as seeing OK, or Tulsa, making any fundamental changes.

[AquaMan]

I hoped someone would catch that reference. Love the lyrics and to think about their relevance to OK is fun. But, remember, the pendulum swings. Bernie was 40 points behind. Obama was an empty suit. Oklahoma was once a progressive state whose constitution was written to protect the little guy.
Oh, and yes, Trump went from unbelievable, to unbeatable to a loser within a few months!