Coming soon to Tulsa: Bob Dylan Archives

[heironymouspasparagus]

Also, I chuckle at the "who's the biggest mass murderer" debate.  Hitler and Mussolini were right wing fascists. Stalin and Mao were leftist communists.  They were all narcissistic authoritarians.

The primary aim of all of them was to accumulate and use the power of the state to advance their own egos and prosperity.  Loyalty to them was more important than anything else, because it is the only thing seen as always helping to advance that goal.  Civil rights, rule of law, individual liberty, checks and balances, actually being a Republic (they always pretend to be a representative government), or really adhering to any political ideology... irrelevant.  Take any system you want, place an egotistical narcissistic at the helm, then give them enough space and any system can be driven into the ground. Left wing, right wing, it doesn't really matter.

Political ideology is a circle.  At one point the far left and the far right are nearly indistinguishable.  One side represses the people for "patriotism" or "God" and the other does it for "the greater good" or "the masses."  You end up in the same place. The ideology that is used as an excuse for the results is secondary.

Exactly what I said just above.  They are identical.

Quote;
"Here is a little clue for you - any dictator whether claiming to be left or right, is just another dictator, and as such, worthy of condemnation and elimination.  They are all the same no matter what ideology they make noise about."

[rebound]

Also, I chuckle at the "who's the biggest mass murderer" debate.  Hitler and Mussolini were right wing fascists. Stalin and Mao were leftist communists.  They were all narcissistic authoritarians.

The primary aim of all of them was to accumulate and use the power of the state to advance their own egos and prosperity.  Loyalty to them was more important than anything else, because it is the only thing seen as always helping to advance that goal.  Civil rights, rule of law, individual liberty, checks and balances, actually being a Republic (they always pretend to be a representative government), or really adhering to any political ideology... irrelevant.  Take any system you want, place an egotistical narcissistic at the helm, then give them enough space and any system can be driven into the ground. Left wing, right wing, it doesn't really matter.

Political ideology is a circle.  At one point the far left and the far right are nearly indistinguishable.  One side represses the people for "patriotism" or "God" and the other does it for "the greater good" or "the masses."  You end up in the same place. The ideology that is used as an excuse for the results is secondary.

Well said.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I know what you meant - I just clarified it to show the equal extremist right wing fascist leanings of at least as many in the other direction.  You didn't catch that??

And practically no rockers that are right wingers, huh?  Whew!  Where did you grow up??   Ted Nugent is an extremist right winger, if ya hadn't caught that by now.  There are actually quite an assortment...some you might even recognize.  Kid Rock.  Johnny Ramone.  Eric Clapton.  50 Cent (rapper, NOT rock, and drug dealer at 12), Elvis Presley, Phil Collins, Gene Simmons, and others I really don't know, but not really rock...like one of the Spice Girls.  And who could ever forget Lynyrd Skynyrd.  Some I like quite a bit - Sammy Hagar, and Meatloaf.  I like Ted's music, too, but don't tell anyone... But then I am not an extremist left or right.  I am an extreme moderate.

Fascism not nearly as deadly, huh?  From someone obviously not familiar with history.  Like US history... A long, glorious history of extermination and genocide.  Between us and Hitler, we got all the commies beat on extermination.  Where is it you think the Nazi's and Stalin got the pattern for what they did??  They knew history.  In fairness, we got a lot of our learning from the Dutch and Genghis Khan, but we did not have to embrace and repeat.

Yeah, no one goes around bragging about being a fascist, except the people like go to Charlottesville - the ones highly praised by Trump as being many fine people.  You again, appear to have NO clue about the past of Trump and his family - they have a LONG history, back about 100 years, to his grandfather, of bigoted, racist, fascist thought AND action, documented repeatedly in the news, and Federal Courts.  But that is easily dismissed and overlooked, ain't it?   After all, he is "our guy" to those elements.

You would also likely to be one to dismiss and excuse the Bush family for grandpa's role in supporting and financing the Nazi Germany war machine through their banking interests almost to the end of 1942 - well after our kids were getting killed by the Nazi's.

Here is a little clue for you - any dictator whether claiming to be left or right, is just another dictator, and as such, worthy of condemnation and elimination.  They are all the same no matter what ideology they make noise about.

No, even the extreme right wing people in the US don't "brag about being fascists" (Trump supporters claim to be very anti-fascist and I've talked/discussed/read opinions of many Trump supporters without finding one who claimed to like fascism.). The point was influential rock bands in general tend to claim to be socialist/communist far more often (and lyrics that support those ideologies are pretty common). Especially in Americana folk (Bright Eyes, Pete Seeger) and punk/rock (The Clash, Dead Kennedys, Dropkick Murphys, NOFX, Rage Against The Machine, Sex Pistols, The Smiths based on lyrics).

Yes, communism/socialism was far more deadly in the 20th century (and 21st) with well over 100 million deaths (some estimates say 142 million) vs somewhere in the 15-20 million range for Hitler and around 30 million including Mussolini et al. All of those are terrible, but it shouldn't be "cool" to support, by far, the deadliest political system to ever exist. It absolutely is not cool to claim to be "fascist", but among bands, who are very influential to young people, it has become somewhat cool to claim to be socialist or communist and nearly every "young person" band is very left leaning. For every Ted Nungent (nice cherry pick!), there's 100 rock/rap bands on the far left.

Most people don't know about Prescott Bush's crucial involvement in providing essential steel and financing to the Hitler war machine, but it is one of the top reasons I am not a fan of the Bush dynasty and most political family dynasties in the US. The US is more of a corporate oligarchy behind the scenes with the illusion of a representational democracy. At a local level, it can still be very democratic (but on stuff that isn't quite as important in the big scheme of things), but we have no say on a national level, just the illusion of choice on a few hot button issues that make little long-term difference compared to the trillions thrown away on so much like military/wars to drown the US in debt and other policies intended to enslave individuals in debt and also create an immense police state for when they've had enough.

[Herb Albert]

This forum sometimes... Geez. Thought this was a thread on the archives. Seems like most of the conversation should be moved to some other thread. Maybe called Deep Thoughts or something...

Who all is familiar with Olson Kundig? Have you seen their work? If not look them up. Truly one of the best architecture firms in the world. I'm very excited to have a building of theirs in Tulsa. I think it will help elevate the architecture experience in Tulsa.

[heironymouspasparagus]

This forum sometimes... Geez. Thought this was a thread on the archives. Seems like most of the conversation should be moved to some other thread. Maybe called Deep Thoughts or something...

Who all is familiar with Olson Kundig? Have you seen their work? If not look them up. Truly one of the best architecture firms in the world. I'm very excited to have a building of theirs in Tulsa. I think it will help elevate the architecture experience in Tulsa.

Or maybe Lunatic Fringe Rantings...?



The only pic I can find for that building - please point out others if you know of some - is here a page or so back, looks like an inside view, with shadows showing lots of glass.  Here is the question for you (and everyone) - does building efficiency** enter into the equation of what constitutes great architectural design?   And second question;  should it??

I bet that most if not all their buildings are LEED certified at some level - which means they are guaranteed not to 'work' as a building that would consider a majority of the ** below.

O-K has some truly beautiful designs if you wander around their website.  Lots of glass prevents any sort of energy efficiency from ever happening...cannot get there from here with average R-4.  Or less.


**Including things like comfort - temperature/humidity stability and control.  Energy usage.  Proper ventilation.

[SXSW]

This forum sometimes... Geez. Thought this was a thread on the archives. Seems like most of the conversation should be moved to some other thread. Maybe called Deep Thoughts or something...

Who all is familiar with Olson Kundig? Have you seen their work? If not look them up. Truly one of the best architecture firms in the world. I'm very excited to have a building of theirs in Tulsa. I think it will help elevate the architecture experience in Tulsa.

Olson Kundig does great work.  Has anyone seen any exterior renderings of the Dylan Archives yet? 

The Kirkland Museum in Denver is awesome:

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Or maybe Lunatic Fringe Rantings...?

That should be your username as a warning. Or maybe I'll just hide your comments because they often add nothing and read like a troll.

[cannon_fodder]

Olson Kundig does great work.  Has anyone seen any exterior renderings of the Dylan Archives yet? 

Nope, it seems like they are playing it close to the chest.  Previous documents talked about using the Zarrow space, so I'm not sure how useful those design guidelines would be to the current project.  But they discussed 18k square feet plus a 6k foot basement for mechanical and other, so ~24k feet.  The new announced space appears to be 125ft x. 100 ft. So if they use most of it a 2 or 3 story structure would seem likely. 

All speculation, of course.  I'm excited to see the design.

The architectural world is interested, but doesn't seem to have info either:
https://www.wallpaper.com/lifestyle/bob-dylan-center-oklahoma-olson-kundig-architects-announcement

[heironymouspasparagus]

That should be your username as a warning. Or maybe I'll just hide your comments because they often add nothing and read like a troll.

Lol.... must be because I use the real trolls as templates for so much of what I write...

It truly is as easy as copy/paste, change the political 'sense' and voila'...my posts done for me.

[D-TownTulsan]

Olson Kundig is a great group of designers, and having Lilly Architects on board is a great look for Tulsa's architectural scene.

The architecture world really is taking notice, not just with this Bob Dylan Center, but with the city as well!
Archdaily, the most visited architecture website worldwide, has a pretty good write-up on it...
https://www.archdaily.com/897273/olson-kundig-chosen-to-design-the-bob-dylan-center-in-tulsa-oklahoma

[Herb Albert]

An Interview with Tom Kundig and Alan Maskin aired last night on public radio Tulsa, they offer up some early insight on what they have planed for the Bob Dylan Center. For any of those who may be interested check out the link below.   

http://kwgs.drupal.publicbroadcasting.net/post/getting-know-architects-who-will-design-bob-dylan-center

[MostSeriousness]

https://www.newson6.com/story/41374774/bob-dylan-center-location-announced-in-downtown-tulsa

Publicly announced - Bob Dylan Center taking over the Philbrook Downtown space

[SXSW]

https://www.newson6.com/story/41374774/bob-dylan-center-location-announced-in-downtown-tulsa

Publicly announced - Bob Dylan Center taking over the Philbrook Downtown space

So are they not building a new facility now?

[sgrizzle]

So are they not building a new facility now?

Nope

[SXSW]

Nope

Dang was hoping to see that parking lot go away.  Maybe a future arts-oriented use can go there.  I feel like Philbrook Downtown filled a contemporary art void in Tulsa so maybe something similar affiliated with TU.