Music City: Tulsa the next big music destination?

[davideinstein]

Agree on UT being a huge advantage.

[SXSW]

They also put water in their river - which is really not much more than a glorified creek in its natural state - several decades ago and its now the city's #1 natural amenity. 

Hey we're working on that (finally).

[Conan71]

Haven't been on 35, but it was backed up when I saw it today. Mopac is an issue currently because of construction. They are building protected bike lanes all over Downtown, the bus system is fantastic (in particular the BRT) and it looks like they are extending the light rail.

Disagree with you on what people from Austin say. I wasn't impressed with Nashville and feel like they try mimicking Austin. When I'm here it's all about seeing live music. In Tulsa, a few shows every year. It's really not the impressive besides the Brady.

Ever go to any shows at The Cain's, Vanguard, Merc, Unit D, etc.?

If all you focus on are acts large enough for the Brady, BOK, or The Joint you are missing out on a lot of Tulsa's music scene.

[cannon_fodder]

U Texas is an amazing asset in terms of fresh faces, young people, talent, jobs, tourism, and cash. It also gets to suck down tens of thousands of state jobs (*cough* like OKC *cough*). Downtown Austin is amazing. The river area is cool. A few of the hill country suburbs are neat. But outside of those areas, it is rapidly becoming just another big city.

A one bedroom apartment within 10 miles of UT (which includes all of downtown) rents for an average of $1207 per month. In Tulsa, that number is $637.

Austin was rated the 4th most congested city in America. Slightly better than San Francisco, and slightly more congested than NY. The city simply wasn't built for the growth it experienced and did not plan ahead (my relatives in Austin were upset a decade ago when they voted down light rail, now it is back on the ballot with twice the timetable and ten times the price tag).

As a result, if you don't want to live in a $1200/month one bedroom in the cool part of time, average commutes have crept north of 30 minutes in most areas.

As a result of all of this, the vibe that made the city an awesome music destination has started to choke out. The starving artist can't live in the center of Austin anymore. 6th Street is so popular many of the venues barely have to pay musicians who are trying to catch on.

This, of course, isn't all bad news for Austin. Its growing pains. But while Tulsa can't and shouldn't strive to be Austin, the growing pains in Austin are an opportunity to cities like Tulsa that aren't "it" yet. And we should capitalize on that to the best of our ability.
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DavidEinstein:

There is live music 7 days a week within a few miles of downtown.

This weekend there is live music at:
The Colony
Guthrie Green
The Vanguard
Brady Theatre
River Spirit Casino
Cain's
The Woody Guthrie Center
The Shrine
Broken Arrow PAC
Mercury Lounge
Woody's (fka River's Edge)
Smitty's Tavern
Hunt Club
The VFW
Osage Casino
The JAzz Depot
The Tulsa PAC
Crow Creek
Baker St. Pub
Soul City


and at least a dozen other places I haven't heard of...

[ex-riverman]

Colony, Soundpony, Guthrie Green.  These are some of the best places to see music in Tulsa.  The music may not be to your liking but Tulsa has a few things going for it...
- National stopover spots like Cain's, Brady, and Soundpony (the indie up-and-comers stop by Soundpony almost every night of the week - they worked hard to make it a critical part of the indie circuit and now have to turn bands away).  
- An active, collaborative music scene with dozens of excellent instrumentalists and songwriters.  What is unique about Tulsa is the collaborative spirit - musicians are constantly playing in each others bands and they have been doing so for years.  They are all getting better and better and some are starting to get national exposure.  This is how you create a sustainable music scene.
- Dozens of great young punk/indie bands - so many young musicians making really creative music and playing constantly.  Again, it may not be your favorite music, but many of the best players in Tulsa (John Moreland) started in punk bands (some are still in punk bands).  
Tulsa has an amazing music scene and it's just getting better. It's getting attention regionally, nationally and (gradually) internationally.  
Austin is awesome, of course - Nashville is too.  Honestly, we will keep being Tulsa and that's a good thing. More and more people will notice and appreciate that we aren't Austin or Nashville. However, if we insist on being like Austin, let's shoot for Austin circa 1993.  

Ever go to any shows at The Cain's, Vanguard, Merc, Unit D, etc.?

If all you focus on are acts large enough for the Brady, BOK, or The Joint you are missing out on a lot of Tulsa's music scene.

[carltonplace]

Local boy Paul Benjaman plays at the Colony most Sundays and is playing the Guthrie Green on Sunday May 8 (mothers day) and he is the opening act for JJ Grey and Mofro at the Cain's May 11.

[rebound]

However, if we insist on being like Austin, let's shoot for Austin circa 1993.  

Almost wrote that exact same thing a bit earlier.  I love Austin,  but the Austin in my mind is the one from about 20-25 years ago.  Less crowded, less expensive, a little more rough around the edges, and still weird.   It's still great, and it would be easy to chalk up my irritation with the current Austin as simply being 25 years older than I was back then, but when I get down there I'll still be at the Continental or Saxon Pub, or some other dive South of the river, until closing.   So I'm not dead yet.

I agree with the last several posts.  Tulsa has an incredible music scene, and it's growing all the time.   Anyone who doesn't see it simply isn't getting out in it.

[Conan71]

Almost wrote that exact same thing a bit earlier.  I love Austin,  but the Austin in my mind is the one from about 20-25 years ago.  Less crowded, less expensive, a little more rough around the edges, and still weird.   It's still great, and it would be easy to chalk up my irritation with the current Austin as simply being 25 years older than I was back then, but when I get down there I'll still be at the Continental or Saxon Pub, or some other dive South of the river, until closing.   So I'm not dead yet.

I agree with the last several posts.  Tulsa has an incredible music scene, and it's growing all the time.   Anyone who doesn't see it simply isn't getting out in it.

And there's this: the truly best acts out of Austin do tour through Tulsa.  The rest are pretty ubiquitous. 

[davideinstein]

Yes, I've seen all of the smaller acts in Tulsa for years. I appreciate it but regardless of what you all say about Austin changing (it's grown, those small venues are still there and artist don't buy houses they rent with friends) it will always have cultural, education and mindset advantages that Tulsa doesn't.

Anybody remember Keep Tulsa Lame? Funny mock ourselves and pointed out that we just need to be ourselves which I'd agree with. Regular Midwestern city with a few good local acts.

[davideinstein]

I just don't see how we will ever tap into that market. Dfest, failed. COUfest, failed. They evolved SXSW for the better in my opinion and they still also have more arts centric festivals like ACL, Fun Fun Fun, Old Settlers, Psych Fest, etc.

Recent acts out of Austin are Explosions in the Sky, LCD Soundsystem, Ghostland Observatory and a ton of other acts. I'm only comparing Austin because I'm visiting this week and I think it's the ultimate music destination to compare to, but I don't even think Tulsa is on the map regionally much less nationally right now.

The biggest issue is the cultural difference. Tulsa is bland outside of a small bubble and that doesn't attract musicians.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Will be interesting to see if Austin goes the way Nashville did.  They have become victim to their own success.  It's one of the "growth for growth's sake" happenings.

Nashville got all jammed up in the city center, all based around the Ryman Theater.  So they moved WAY out in the boonies.  It ain't the Grand Ole Opry to me anymore, but that move made it work and it has turned into an even bigger destination.

Now, will Austin music scene move out somewhere - maybe north to Round Rock, so DFW people can get there easier - and leave the city center as a quaint little remnant?  The old Ryman Theater is still chugging along, and that is the only area of town we visit when there - haven't even been out to see the 'new' Grand Ole Opry' (even though it has been since the early 70's).  Austin may also end up with the highly commercial 'out of town' version, with a smaller, more intimate, more interesting city core.



Which reminds me...I gotta get to Key West before the Green Parrot Bar loses its soul....

[erfalf]

I was just in the "new" Grand Ole Opry. It is impressive, but in a Disney World kind of way. It is nothing to look at on the outside, and extremely "produced" on the inside. Like a movie set kind of way. Like it was made to look old, but is not actually old. It felt brand new yet it is really 42 years old. They have the medallion from the old Ryman in the center of the stage which is kind of cool, but how much history is a 3 foot circle of wood flooring really?

Now, on a side note, the hotel next door (Gaylord) is quit impressive. Out corporate gathering had an amazing time there.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I was just in the "new" Grand Ole Opry. It is impressive, but in a Disney World kind of way. It is nothing to look at on the outside, and extremely "produced" on the inside. Like a movie set kind of way. Like it was made to look old, but is not actually old. It felt brand new yet it is really 42 years old. They have the medallion from the old Ryman in the center of the stage which is kind of cool, but how much history is a 3 foot circle of wood flooring really?

Now, on a side note, the hotel next door (Gaylord) is quit impressive. Out corporate gathering had an amazing time there.

The "odd" thing about that - makes ya wanna say, "huh...??" - is that the original Ryman only had a 30 year run as the Grand Ole Opry.  The new one has been around 30% - noticeably - longer.  Go figure...why the new one doesn't have the same "appeal" - even though it is thriving and appears to be going very strong? 

Like so many things, people become enamored with the "feel" of a place, then once they go there, want to change it all.  Human nature.  Quirky, fun little places become victims of their own success.

Silver Dollar City  (Sammy Lane Resort, Branson !)
Gatlinburg, TN  (Dollywood....)
Austin



Little getaway streaming video - get the feel of the place in my ears, if I can't be immersed in it personally....
http://www.greenparrot.com/key-west-webcams/

[Conan71]

The biggest issue is the cultural difference. Tulsa is bland outside of a small bubble and that doesn't attract musicians.

I'm really glad I don't have the same prescription vision as you do.  

The big reason DFest failed was loss of their signature sponsor. COTU failed because major sponsors never materialized.  Sadly, one of the two founders of that suffered a traumatic brain injury a couple of months ago and has a very long recovery ahead of him.  I'm less than optimistic this will re-appear in a larger venue as he was claiming it would in an interview a week or so before this accident happened.

Those are both events which, IMO, got much bigger than necessary and started to rely on larger national touring acts to try and get a bigger draw at the gate.  That, apparently, did not equate to financial solvency.  Those were not sustainable business models, they are not a reflection on Tulsa's music scene, but what I'd consider poor business judgement by the promotors.  I also think the heat of July makes it a bad time to try and do any sort of outdoor festival on the concrete in Tulsa, that's the main reason MC and I never went to COTU.  We are festival people but it's just too hot to enjoy ourselves.

If someone could convince Peter Mayo or Chad Rogers (or both) to take the helm of a festival, I'd give it a much greater chance of success.  They regularly book music acts, know the industry, and most important- the economics of it.  Peter has been booking bands since 1977.

[davideinstein]

Completely false that Austin has become a victim of its own success. Last time I was here was in 2004 for ACL Festival and the city has actually gotten better. The public transit is better, the protected bike lanes are more prevalent, there are more music festivals/venues and it is so successful the only thing people from Tulsa can do is retort to the "it's not the same anymore" debate and fill in excuses for why we are so far behind. Just my $0.02