RNC - what a s**t show

[Conan71]

I'm interested if Bernie's supporters might flock to Gary Johnson.  He's probably closer to Bernie's social views than Trump.  He's also a realist on immigration since he was governor of a border state with Mexico.  He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.

[cynical]

Only those who will never vote for Hillary. Bernie's views are sort of barely in the same universe as Johnson's, just as they are sort of in the same universe with Trump, Cruz. His views align better with Hillary's than anyone else's.

There's more to Johnson's platform than marijuana legalization. Elimination of the welfare state is central to Libertarian thought, including programs such as social security and medicare. Deregulation of the economy is also central. No SEC, no FTC, no DoE, no subsidies, no EPA, no public schools, no income tax, no duty to bargain collectively, etc, etc. Does that sound remotely like Bernie's views on anything? Abortion, MJ, LGBT issues, perhaps. Everything else is pretty much pure anarchism. It should be attractive to conservatives turned off by Trump's authoritarianism, but not to the most ardent Hillary hater on the left.

https://www.lp.org/platform

Jill Stein of the Green Party is overtly making a play for disaffected Bernie supporters. Anyone who wants to make a protest vote for a fringe movement can go there, except in Oklahoma where she won't be on the ballot. Oddly, the Green Party website is listing Oklahoma as a "write-in/legislative action" state, perhaps unaware that write-in votes spoil the voter's entire ballot in Oklahoma.

I'm interested if Bernie's supporters might flock to Gary Johnson.  He's probably closer to Bernie's social views than Trump.  He's also a realist on immigration since he was governor of a border state with Mexico.  He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.

[Ibanez]

I'm interested if Bernie's supporters might flock to Gary Johnson.  He's probably closer to Bernie's social views than Trump.  He's also a realist on immigration since he was governor of a border state with Mexico.  He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.

Lifelong Republican here. I will be voting for Gary Johnson. I know many more like me. In fact of all my Republican friends I only know of one who is voting for Trump. She's an idiot though so it doesn't surprise me.

I am also friends with several Democrats who will be voting for Johnson. The split is still probably 80/20 in her favor among my Democrat friends, but I am still a bit surprised by it.

It would be great if he were part of the debates.

[Hoss]

The problem with the third parties or alternative parties is that they only seem to come out for the Presidential elections.  Start coming out for local/state legistlative/Congressional elections if you want to be taken seriously.  Until that point, the only thing they'll really ever be is a punch line or vote spoiler.

I like Gary Johnson too.  I just wish more of these alternatives would run in down-ballot races.  It would legitimize their standing.

[rebound]

The problem with the third parties or alternative parties is that they only seem to come out for the Presidential elections.  Start coming out for local/state legistlative/Congressional elections if you want to be taken seriously.  Until that point, the only thing they'll really ever be is a punch line or vote spoiler.

I like Gary Johnson too.  I just wish more of these alternatives would run in down-ballot races.  It would legitimize their standing.

Same here.  It will be interesting to see if Johnson stays with the Libertarian party and helps them with local/state politics after this run is over.  This is the first year that Libertarian party is on every state presidential ballot.   That should give them some room to move to get on more local elections.   I think we can assume that no matter which side wins, there are going to be a lot of disaffected voters, and the time is right for a strong third party (which the Libertarians seem to finally be gelling into) to actually make inroads locally.   If they could just win a few local/state elections at the next mid-terms it would be really interesting in four years.

[cannon_fodder]

FYI: the Libertarians (and other third parties) were/are effectively banned from the ballot in Oklahoma. If you don't have a D or an R next to your name, you need a crippling number of signatures to get on the ballot in Oklahoma. To get on the ballot you need 5% of the voter turnout in the last election to get on the ballot. So... 50-70,000 signatures each and every election. That number was reduced to 3%.

Still, it's a hard sell when people get tired of the effort time and time again. Much harder again when it is an off-year election or a minor candidate trying to get on a ballot.

[cynical]

The Libertarian Party is on the ballot here as of March of this year. The Green Party is not.

FYI: the Libertarians (and other third parties) were/are effectively banned from the ballot in Oklahoma. If you don't have a D or an R next to your name, you need a crippling number of signatures to get on the ballot in Oklahoma. To get on the ballot you need 5% of the voter turnout in the last election to get on the ballot. So... 50-70,000 signatures each and every election. That number was reduced to 3%.

Still, it's a hard sell when people get tired of the effort time and time again. Much harder again when it is an off-year election or a minor candidate trying to get on a ballot.

[patric]

Claim: The number of police officers killed in the line of duty has risen by almost 50% compared to this point last year.
Fact: 8%

Today the Officer Down Memorial page says its  -1%


https://www.odmp.org/search/year

[erfalf]

Today the Officer Down Memorial page says its  -1%


https://www.odmp.org/search/year

I don't know specifically what they are looking at without being thorough with the list (which I don't have time right now), but in 2015 there were 39 gunfire related deaths, so far in 2016 there have been 31. If you look a lot of the deaths are not necessarily what you would consider a murder. Think auto accidents, falling, heart attacks. They include them all, even 9/11 related illnesses of which there were 8 last year and only 1 so far this year. To say there is not an increase in violence towards cops at least on a measurable level is disillusion. There has been what would equate to 1/5 of a year's worth of gunfire related cop fatalities in one week. Hopefully it is an anomaly. But it doesn't discount the "fact".

[heironymouspasparagus]

This is too much! Lets look at the factual statements in his speech that followed this very claim:

Claim: I will present the facts plainly and honestly.
Fact: Donald Trump has lied more than any presidential candidate in history. Fact checkers illustrate that less than 20% of his fact based statements are true.

Thank you!

[heironymouspasparagus]

He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.

You are way smarter than to embrace more than just a fraction of their mostly adolescent stuff.....


Some nice sound bites that can give a sense of longing for a false time past, but when you step even an inch beyond the 'curtain', it unravels quickly.

[AquaMan]

Conan, doesn't any of this give you pause to reflect?

"There's more to Johnson's platform than marijuana legalization. Elimination of the welfare state is central to Libertarian thought, including programs such as social security and medicare. Deregulation of the economy is also central. No SEC, no FTC, no DoE, no subsidies, no EPA, no public schools, no income tax, no duty to bargain collectively, etc, etc. Does that sound remotely like Bernie's views on anything? Abortion, MJ, LGBT issues, perhaps. Everything else is pretty much pure anarchism. "

To me these planks of the platform point towards chaos. Even if never accomplished they are roadmaps to the late 19th century.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I don't know specifically what they are looking at without being thorough with the list (which I don't have time right now), but in 2015 there were 39 gunfire related deaths, so far in 2016 there have been 31. If you look a lot of the deaths are not necessarily what you would consider a murder. Think auto accidents, falling, heart attacks. They include them all, even 9/11 related illnesses of which there were 8 last year and only 1 so far this year. To say there is not an increase in violence towards cops at least on a measurable level is disillusion. There has been what would equate to 1/5 of a year's worth of gunfire related cop fatalities in one week. Hopefully it is an anomaly. But it doesn't discount the "fact".

These type events look alarming, and it is alarming that anyone is killed during police related events, but this year cannot be compared in any meaningfully statistically way to just last year.  The year may end up higher than last, but in 2013 there were 31 total, so 2014 saw about a 25% increase....is that number meaningful?  Not yet.  A few more years will be required to see if this is a real trend or just a blip.  The decade average is 53 - this year is still likely to be lower than that....


9/11 had 72 officers killed in 1 day - putting us on "pace" late that afternoon for more than 26,000 police deaths per year.  Not meaningful.

[erfalf]

These type events look alarming, and it is alarming that anyone is killed during police related events, but this year cannot be compared in any meaningfully statistically way to just last year.  The year may end up higher than last, but in 2013 there were 31 total, so 2014 saw about a 25% increase....is that number meaningful?  Not yet.  A few more years will be required to see if this is a real trend or just a blip.  The decade average is 53 - this year is still likely to be lower than that....


9/11 had 72 officers killed in 1 day - putting us on "pace" late that afternoon for more than 26,000 police deaths per year.  Not meaningful.

I'm with you. I was just pointing out how they likely came up with that meaningless, yet probably entirely accurate stat.

[erfalf]

Thank you!

The same fact checks that "fact checked" the statements made by a grieving mother? Fact checkers have been notorious cherry pickers. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say. Not necessarily what they say, but what they don't say.