Moratorium: No more sidewalk cafes

[davideinstein]

Lol..The city does what it should do and people can't wrap their bucking heads around it....

It's not practical. I don't need to wrap my head around anything done at city hall.

[davideinstein]

What I can't wrap my head around is why the City needs to wait on Jeff Speck to create a new licensing agreement policy regarding fees, penalties, insurance, etc.

Jeff Speck's studies are about walkability.  He is consistent with his recommendations for making downtowns more walkable and using public sidewalks.  What he advocates can be found in his book, Walkable City, or in the walkability analyses he has already completed for OKC, Fort Lauderdale, Boise, Albuquerque, and Lancaster.

I emailed Jeff two days ago and he didn't seem to be able to wrap his head around it either. Confirmed his study will be about making the city as walkable as possible which will include sidewalk cafes.

[davideinstein]

He responds at Jeff@jeffspeck.com if any of you are interested.

[Breadburner]

It's not practical. I don't need to wrap my head around anything done at city hall.

Lol..You're off the reservation....

[patric]

Around 1999 or 2000, when Susan Savage was mayor, the City of Tulsa and Downtown Tulsa Unlimited published a report called "Downtown Tulsa | The Heart of the Region."  

The accompanying drawing on page 13 of the report shows a series of trees in slightly raised planters (similar to those along Main between 3rd and 4th) on both sides of Boston, alternating with red brick or paver strips and double acorn lights.

I don't remember all of the details, but John Bumgarner complained about widening the sidewalks along Boston, and the City revised its plans to keep them at twelve feet wide

Its a darn shame he didnt know anything about lighting, or we would have had vision-friendly street illumination much sooner.

[davideinstein]

Lol..You're off the reservation....

No, that's your local politicians.

[Bamboo World]

Its a darn shame he didnt know anything about lighting, or we would have had vision-friendly street illumination much sooner.

Sorry, patric.  It was Chris Bumgarner quoted in a 2004 Tulsa World article about the Boston Avenue project, not John Bumgarner.  I've corrected my post from yesterday, but not before you quoted me.

Anyway, the issue was about vehicular traffic flow around 4th & Boston, not the lighting.

I vaguely recall another Tulsa World article about how the new old-timey light fixtures were being manufactured by the same company that made the old old-timey light fixtures used in downtown Tulsa in the 1920s -- Holophane, I presume.

In the Boston Avenue rendering created circa 1998, acorn lights were shown alternating with trees in planters.  I call them double acorns because they have two lenses.  I've looked on Acuity's website today for a photo, but can't find one.  Anyway, they are fairly common, but I don't know the official name.

[Bamboo World]

I emailed Jeff two days ago and he didn't seem to be able to wrap his head around it either. Confirmed his study will be about making the city as walkable as possible which will include sidewalk cafes.

I talked to him about downtown Tulsa recently, but I haven't tried contacting him since the sidewalk café "moratorium" issue came up earlier this week, and I probably won't bother him with it, either.

Thanks for starting this topic, by the way.  A sidewalk café moratorium wasn't on my radar before you began the discussion.  After seeing several renderings done to promote public sales taxes to fund the re-construction of downtown streets, I thought sidewalk cafés were something to be encouraged, not halted.  Silly me. 

I'm wondering why all those banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors were shown using public sidewalks in the public sales tax promotional renderings... 

Did the City want more banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors using public sidewalks, or not?

If not, then why would the City and Downtown Tulsa Unlimited hire someone to create promotional renderings for a public sales tax showing banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors on public sidewalks?

Did the City of Tulsa, after spending millions of public sales tax dollars to re-construct public streets downtown, not expect to have more banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors using public streets and sidewalks downtown?  If not, why?  Was the City expecting to spend millions of public sales tax dollars on re-building streets downtown and then expecting to not get the results shown in the promotional material created to generate public support for those sales taxes?  If so, that doesn't make very much sense to me.

[patric]

I vaguely recall another Tulsa World article about how the new old-timey light fixtures were being manufactured by the same company that made the old old-timey light fixtures used in downtown Tulsa in the 1920s -- Holophane, I presume.

In the Boston Avenue rendering created circa 1998, acorn lights were shown alternating with trees in planters.  I call them double acorns because they have two lenses.  I've looked on Acuity's website today for a photo, but can't find one.  Anyway, they are fairly common, but I don't know the official name.

Acorn-style lights have been around almost as long as electric street lighting.  What people dont see in the photos from 1920 is the huge difference in lighting types and illumination levels.

Once the standard for street illumination was the equivalent of a full moon -- about 0.02 footcandles.  It was accomplished with incandescent lamps and gas mantles.

Today street lighting has to compete with commercial lighting in the hundred-footcandle league, which is often blue-rich lighting like Metal Halide or high-CCT LED.   The ballpark standard for Tulsa residential streetcorners is ONE footcandle measured on the pavement directly beneath a streetlight.

Where we fail with "modern" acorns is trying to cram high-intensity sources in an optic meant for low-intensity lighting in an effort to meet present-day lighting expectations.  

Acorns are just great if you respect their limitations and keep the light sources close to their historical appearance and function.  To meet modern lighting needs, though, you need to supplement the ambience they provide with state-of-the-art shielded lights of greater intensity.

Decorative lights should have decorative intensities.
If Tulsa ever needed a street furniture moratorium, it should be High-intensity Acorns.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

The report suggested widening the sidewalks along Boston Avenue from twelve to twenty feet.  The proposal was for a twelve-foot north-bound lane, a twelve-foot south-bound lane, and eight-foot parallel parking lanes along each curb.  The stated purpose for the sidewalk widening was to allow for street front retail use of sidewalk space and to create opportunities for additional shade trees at regular intervals along the street.

Broken Arrow has their new Rose District up and running for a while now.  They did the wider sidewalk thing, narrowing Main Street down to two lanes and leaving the parking the way it was - NOT parallel parking!!  At first, they were going to change to parallel, but it seems like people actually had a city government that listened to them - there were a lot of people complaining about that.

Bottom line - the wider sidewalks are very good thing!!


I wasn't sure how what they showed as the plan would work, but we have been through there several times and it is very nice!  Gonna be going there more often.  The chocolate place is to die for !!!!

[Breadburner]

Acorn-style lights have been around almost as long as electric street lighting.  What people dont see in the photos from 1920 is the huge difference in lighting types and illumination levels.

Once the standard for street illumination was the equivalent of a full moon -- about 0.02 footcandles.  It was accomplished with incandescent lamps and gas mantles.

Today street lighting has to compete with commercial lighting in the hundred-footcandle league, which is often blue-rich lighting like Metal Halide or high-CCT LED.   The ballpark standard for Tulsa residential streetcorners is ONE footcandle measured on the pavement directly beneath a streetlight.

Where we fail with "modern" acorns is trying to cram high-intensity sources in an optic meant for low-intensity lighting in an effort to meet present-day lighting expectations.  

Acorns are just great if you respect their limitations and keep the light sources close to their historical appearance and function.  To meet modern lighting needs, though, you need to supplement the ambience they provide with state-of-the-art shielded lights of greater intensity.

Decorative lights should have decorative intensities.
If Tulsa ever needed a street furniture moratorium, it should be High-intensity Acorns.  

This thread is not about lighting if haven't noticed....

[davideinstein]

This thread is not about lighting if haven't noticed....

It's all connected to walkability.

[davideinstein]

I talked to him about downtown Tulsa recently, but I haven't tried contacting him since the sidewalk café "moratorium" issue came up earlier this week, and I probably won't bother him with it, either.

Thanks for starting this topic, by the way.  A sidewalk café moratorium wasn't on my radar before you began the discussion.  After seeing several renderings done to promote public sales taxes to fund the re-construction of downtown streets, I thought sidewalk cafés were something to be encouraged, not halted.  Silly me. 

I'm wondering why all those banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors were shown using public sidewalks in the public sales tax promotional renderings... 

Did the City want more banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors using public sidewalks, or not?

If not, then why would the City and Downtown Tulsa Unlimited hire someone to create promotional renderings for a public sales tax showing banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors on public sidewalks?

Did the City of Tulsa, after spending millions of public sales tax dollars to re-construct public streets downtown, not expect to have more banners and awnings and tables and chairs and vendors using public streets and sidewalks downtown?  If not, why?  Was the City expecting to spend millions of public sales tax dollars on re-building streets downtown and then expecting to not get the results shown in the promotional material created to generate public support for those sales taxes?  If so, that doesn't make very much sense to me.

I think there are people in office that only think about ways to generate revenue instead of livability. I'm also behind skeptical about how my tax money is used locally. Nothing adds up ever besides them covering their tracks.

[AquaMan]

Why don't you run for office or work for one of them to learn the issues that profession faces? Then talk about it from a better perspective. Easy to criticize them but its a harder job than it appears, otherwise....I'd be doing it!

[Bamboo World]

This thread is not about...

I thought this thread was about a moratorium mentioned in its title and in the title and in the text of a Tulsa World article by Jarrel Wade.

I thought it was about a moratorium on licensing agreements which, according to the first sentence of the Tulsa World article, was issued recently by the Mayor's Office, halting sidewalk cafés and signage in public rights of way.

Does anyone on this forum know on which date the Mayor's Office issued the moratorium?  I've looked for the moratorium online, but can't find it.  If the moratorium was a written order or directive, I'd like to see it.