President Trump- The Implications

[erfalf]

Really?  No, seriously, that is not valid.  There is a very distinct difference between adult-to-adult behavior and adult-to-child behavior.  If you don't get that fundamental difference, then there is no further conversation.  This shouldn't require elaboration or parsing out.

I understand it takes a special kind of creep to do terrible things to kids, but I don't hold those that do it to adults in any better light. It is a violation of a person. Male, female, child, adult. The person committing the act obviously doesn't value anyone's rights other than his/her own. You can parse it all day long, I just hold them all in the same contempt. Apparently I am alone in this feeling. If that makes me an idiot for believing it than so be it. I CAN live with that.

[swake]

Welp. Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's Capitol. We all know what that means—more evidence of Russian collusion.

No, it probably means violent protests and dead people and maybe another war for no reason. So yeah we know what that means, more evidence of Trump being a thoughtless idiot.

Now THIS is more evidence of Russian collusion and corruption:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/2017-12-06.EEC%20to%20Gowdy.pdf

[swake]

I understand it takes a special kind of creep to do terrible things to kids, but I don't hold those that do it to adults in any better light. It is a violation of a person. Male, female, child, adult. The person committing the act obviously doesn't value anyone's rights other than his/her own. You can parse it all day long, I just hold them all in the same contempt. Apparently I am alone in this feeling. If that makes me an idiot for believing it than so be it. I CAN live with that.

Tell us about your contempt for Moore and Trump and how Moore shouldn't be elected and Trump should resign now?

[erfalf]

Tell us about your contempt for Moore and Trump and how Moore shouldn't be elected and Trump should resign now?

I also have this antiquated reverence for the legal system in this country. Just about the time one or both gets convicted, I will be right there with you.

I have no first hand evidence of anything other than some stuff he said caught on camera. While I find it repulsive, it's also not a crime that I am aware of.

[swake]

I also have this antiquated reverence for the legal system in this country. Just about the time one or both gets convicted, I will be right there with you.

I have no first hand evidence of anything other than some stuff he said caught on camera. While I find it repulsive, it's also not a crime that I am aware of.

And there you go, soo critical of Clinton, correctly so. But he ALSO has never been charged or convicted of anything. Your hypocrisy is noted.

This is politics and elected representation, not a court room. We the public DO get to decide who we want to represent us based on our best judgement, not just criminal convictions. Your judgement is that what Trump and Moore (and therefore Clinton, Conyers, Franken Farenthold and Thomas) have been very credibly accused of doesn't matter. That's a bad take

[erfalf]

And there you go, soo critical of Clinton, correctly so. But he ALSO has never been charged or convicted of anything. Your hypocrisy is noted.

This is politics and elected representation, not a court room. We the public DO get to decide who we want to represent us based on our best judgement, not just criminal convictions. Your judgement is that what Trump and Moore (and therefore Clinton, Conyers, Franken Farenthold and Thomas) have been very credibly accused of doesn't matter. That's a bad take

It's actually pointing out your hypocrisy. I point out something that is exactly like what you are clammoring about, and tell you to chill, and I'm the hypocrite? You are funny.

[rebound]

I understand it takes a special kind of creep to do terrible things to kids, but I don't hold those that do it to adults in any better light. It is a violation of a person. Male, female, child, adult. The person committing the act obviously doesn't value anyone's rights other than his/her own. You can parse it all day long, I just hold them all in the same contempt. Apparently I am alone in this feeling. If that makes me an idiot for believing it than so be it. I CAN live with that.

I try not to let things devolve into personal attacks, and I'm not doing this here.  But here's the thing.  I don't believe you.  While I don't agree with a lot of your positions, for the most part (as I try to do others on this site, and in general, that I disagree with) I understand where you are coming from.  And generally I can follow the logic.

But not on this.   You even go so far to say that it takes a "special kind of creep".   It's that "special" piece that indicates you do actually see the difference, even if you don't want to acknowledge it.

To be clear, we live in a world that does unfortunately require "parsing".  We have so much more information today of the various picadillos - sexual and political, etc. - that we are forced (for better or worse) to see our leadership as real human beings and not paragons of virtue.  But that does not mean there are not still lines that can't be crossed.  There is an arguable difference between "inappropriate touching", and physical assault.  Between political cooperation, and collusion.  And between 21 year olds and 16 year olds.

You, and all of us, intuitively know these differences.  We just have to be honest enough with ourselves to admit it.

[erfalf]

I try not to let things devolve into personal attacks, and I'm not doing this here.  But here's the thing.  I don't believe you.  While I don't agree with a lot of your positions, for the most part (as I try to do others on this site, and in general, that I disagree with) I understand where you are coming from.  And generally I can follow the logic.

But not on this.   You even go so far to say that it takes a "special kind of creep".   It's that "special" piece that indicates you do actually see the difference, even if you don't want to acknowledge it.

To be clear, we live in a world that does unfortunately require "parsing".  We have so much more information today of the various picadillos - sexual and political, etc. - that we are forced (for better or worse) to see our leadership as real human beings and not paragons of virtue.  But that does not mean there are not still lines that can't be crossed.  There is an arguable difference between "inappropriate touching", and physical assault.  Between political cooperation, and collusion.  And between 21 year olds and 16 year olds.

You, and all of us, intuitively know these differences.  We just have to be honest enough with ourselves to admit it.

Not to be argumentative, but I just think the difference in this case is so small that it's not worth differentiating. It's just an opinion. I'm no more wrong than you are right.

Now, I completely understand that the laws vary (by state even), but I was making no judgement on that.

[guido911]

No, it probably means violent protests and dead people and maybe another war for no reason. So yeah we know what that means, more evidence of Trump being a thoughtless idiot.

Now THIS is more evidence of Russian collusion and corruption:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/2017-12-06.EEC%20to%20Gowdy.pdf

Never in my life have I seen so many chicken(hawks) who could not find the time to serve this country, or gave 0 craps about Russia or the enemies of this country before last year, sounding so bad donkey about national security. Remind us Swake what you did to protect this country. I Know RA, Artist, and at least another has. I'm thinking it was you given how loud you are.

[erfalf]

Never in my life have I seen so many chicken(hawks) who could not find the time to serve this country, or gave 0 craps about Russia or the enemies of this country before last year, sounding so bad donkey about national security. Remind us Swake what you did to protect this country. I Know RA, Artist, and at least another has. I'm thinking it was you given how loud you are.

So why is it again that nearly the entire world has taken it upon themselves to determine the capital of Israel again? Why do we even have a say so in the matter?

Good move. Agree with an ally as to which city is their capital.

[swake]

Never in my life have I seen so many chicken(hawks) who could not find the time to serve this country, or gave 0 craps about Russia or the enemies of this country before last year, sounding so bad donkey about national security. Remind us Swake what you did to protect this country. I Know RA, Artist, and at least another has. I'm thinking it was you given how loud you are.

Bark, Bark, Bark.

[TeeDub]

On a happier note, you should see this several times in the press shortly.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/inside-the-beltway-resistmas-the-hillary-clinton-c/

[rebound]

So why is it again that nearly the entire world has taken it upon themselves to determine the capital of Israel again? Why do we even have a say so in the matter?

Good move. Agree with an ally as to which city is their capital.

"Why do we even have a say so in the matter?"
Because we, and in general the Western Powers, are the reason Israel exists in the first place.  See below for a brief overview, in case anyone's memory needs refreshing.  In terms of global politics, this whole topic is still very much undecided.   The Israelis didn't even get control of East Jerusalem until 1969, and the Arabs are still not done with the whole thing yet.

Having said that, if we take this specific event out of context with all things Trump (which is so, so, hard to do...) I think this was handled fairly well, at least for Trump.  If the Israelis are calling Jerusalem the capital, we should acknowledge that.

IMHO, the best long-term solution would be to take the Temple Mount area, and maybe all of the old city, and create an international zone run by the UN or some related entity, as a "sacred place" for world use, or something similar. 


==================
Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, the British assumed control of Palestine. In November 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, announcing its intention to facilitate the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people." In 1922, the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate over Palestine which included, among other things, provisions calling for the establishment of a Jewish homeland, facilitating Jewish immigration and encouraging Jewish settlement on the land.

The Arabs were opposed to Jewish immigration to Palestine and stepped up their attacks against the Jews. Following an increase in Arab attacks, the British appointed a royal commission in 1936 to investigate the Palestine situation. The Peel Commission recommended the partition of the country between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs rejected the idea while the Jews accepted the principle of partition.

At the end of World War II, the British persisted in their immigration restrictions and Jewish survivors of the Holocaust were violently turned away from the shores of Palestine. The Jewish Agency and the Haganah continued to smuggle Jews into Palestine. Underground cells of Jews, most notably the Irgun and Lehi, engaged in open warfare against the British and their installations.

The British concluded that they could no longer manage Palestine and handed the issue over to the United Nations. On November 29, 1947, after much debate and discussion, the UN recommended the partition of Palestine into two states ­ one Jewish and one Arab. The Jews accepted the UN resolution while the Arabs rejected it.

Meanwhile, since the time of the British Mandate, the Jewish community in Palestine had been forming political, social and economic institutions that governed daily life in Palestine and served as a pre-state infrastructure. Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973) served as head of the pre-state government.

The British mandate over Palestine officially terminated at midnight, May 14, 1948. Earlier in the day, at 4:00 p.m., David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the creation of the State of Israel and became its first prime minister. Longtime advocate of Zionism in Britain Chaim Weizmann (1874-1952) became Israel's first president. On May 15, the United States recognized the State of Israel and the Soviet Union soon followed suit.
=============

[heironymouspasparagus]

Welp. Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's Capitol. We all know what that means—more evidence of Russian collusion.

No.  Just another stupid thing he does that is going to cause more violence that he can use to get us into more war.

[patric]

Now we know why the hillbilly possum that runs Trump's DOJ only gives interviews to Faux News:
He's an out-of-touch assholio.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/guarded-sessions-spars-interns-internal-doj-video/story?id=51623744