President Trump- The Implications

[erfalf]

Yeah, like subsidizing the oil industry to the tune of billions a year of our tax money to keep people pointed directly at oil dug out of the ground.  As opposed to say maybe just letting the free market system work by removing restrictions on growing certain plants that grow as weeds that could provide a big majority of our fuel and oil needs.

As for forcing anyone to buy a Tesla, well that is not a "push" demand - it is a "pull" demand - people buying them really want them!  The styling is impeccable - they look really good (for the Okies amongst us)!!  Performance is amazing - even though it is stupid to do actual road racing, it is good to ride the highways at a reasonable speed.  And the cost for fuel is the best of any available automobile...at least for a little while longer - it's free for life using one of their charging stations.  Stay with the high end luxury model and it remains free!

The point was whether or not it was ok for the government to basically make a viable product nonviable at the benefit of a competitor? That would equate to cutting subsidies to oil & gas and boosting them for renewable at the same time. Which is not what is occurring at the moment.

And I understand Tesla's are desirable. Most other electric cars, not quite so much.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The point was whether or not it was ok for the government to basically make a viable product nonviable at the benefit of a competitor? That would equate to cutting subsidies to oil & gas and boosting them for renewable at the same time. Which is not what is occurring at the moment.

And I understand Tesla's are desirable. Most other electric cars, not quite so much.

We - as in our government - meddle all the time and have done that repeatedly.  100 years ago it was government meddling in transportation that set us on the course of favoring auto/truck transport over train.  At that time, the train companies were considered to big to allow to keep on like they were - intentional efforts to cut them down to size.  Kind of like the 'breaking up' of Standard Oil.

True, we don't see much of that lately - until the last few weeks with Trump trying to play some kind of game with coal and steel.  He made big promises that are literally, physically impossible to keep.  Coal will never come back like it was say 30+ years ago...natural gas is just too cheap for that to happen - at least in our lives.  And as natural gas usage peaks, levels out and declines, it will just make the coal slide worse.

But - there is a huge market we literally have just thrown away over the last couple decades!  Solar.  We invented the stuff.  Developed methods and applications.  Then just walked away and let China have it, lock, stock, and barrel...because of yeah, you guessed it - big oil and coal. 

Old business saying I have heard for decades for companies also applies to societies - if you don't cannibalize your own product, someone else will !  And we let someone else cannibalize solar!!  And the anti-electric car people want to do the same. 

And they are trying to keep the genie in the bottle with respect to biofuels, too.  Prohibiting the use of the single most productive feedstock for biofuel and oil production - marijuana! 


And steel...?   Well, a lot has gone overseas, but our remaining steel has evolved into almost "boutique" specialty steel companies.  And from what I can see (reading and listening) we have not really lost much in either employment or value of sales - the low end 'rebar' type stuff is where we don't have as much presence.  And foreign labor didn't take away what employment was lost - automation (robots) has had a much bigger effect that moving jobs to China ever did or will.  And not just in steel...

[erfalf]

We - as in our government - meddle all the time and have done that repeatedly.  100 years ago it was government meddling in transportation that set us on the course of favoring auto/truck transport over train.  At that time, the train companies were considered to big to allow to keep on like they were - intentional efforts to cut them down to size.  Kind of like the 'breaking up' of Standard Oil.

True, we don't see much of that lately - until the last few weeks with Trump trying to play some kind of game with coal and steel.  He made big promises that are literally, physically impossible to keep.  Coal will never come back like it was say 30+ years ago...natural gas is just too cheap for that to happen - at least in our lives.  And as natural gas usage peaks, levels out and declines, it will just make the coal slide worse.

But - there is a huge market we literally have just thrown away over the last couple decades!  Solar.  We invented the stuff.  Developed methods and applications.  Then just walked away and let China have it, lock, stock, and barrel...because of yeah, you guessed it - big oil and coal. 

Old business saying I have heard for decades for companies also applies to societies - if you don't cannibalize your own product, someone else will !  And we let someone else cannibalize solar!!  And the anti-electric car people want to do the same. 

And they are trying to keep the genie in the bottle with respect to biofuels, too.  Prohibiting the use of the single most productive feedstock for biofuel and oil production - marijuana! 


And steel...?   Well, a lot has gone overseas, but our remaining steel has evolved into almost "boutique" specialty steel companies.  And from what I can see (reading and listening) we have not really lost much in either employment or value of sales - the low end 'rebar' type stuff is where we don't have as much presence.  And foreign labor didn't take away what employment was lost - automation (robots) has had a much bigger effect that moving jobs to China ever did or will.  And not just in steel...

In a former life I worked at a pressure vessel manufacturer. Nearly every project required steel at certain specifications and rarely came from overseas. It seemed (and I am not expert) that the US either had the best alloy production on the planet, or the cheapest. I'm not sure which to be honest.

And I know we/the country/government/whomever has helped in picking winners and losers for decades. But are we not getting tired of it. No one can say for certain whether one industry would fail or succeed because we've mucked up the system so bad with unnatural pressure. Maybe electric cars are being held back. Maybe they are a bunch of lemons. Who the hell knows for sure.

[AquaMan]

People know Alf. They know. People know how to get energy out of the air, how to insure the masses economically and how to keep our playpen clean and healthy. We intend to stay ignorant and blind as long as possible to keep the right folks happy, wealthy and in charge.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And I know we/the country/government/whomever has helped in picking winners and losers for decades. But are we not getting tired of it. No one can say for certain whether one industry would fail or succeed because we've mucked up the system so bad with unnatural pressure. Maybe electric cars are being held back. Maybe they are a bunch of lemons. Who the hell knows for sure.

Alf?  Is that where your name came from?  Is first name Gordon by any chance?


When you have proven bad effects - like all the adverse effects relative to coal - one should try to do better.  On the grand scale of things, a company, or a society should be trying new things all the time.  One will never know if it is a lemon if one does not take a shot at it.  Semi-electric cars are proven and have a track record.  Without more than a very modest nudge in the form of incentives from government - much less total than we give oil/gas every year!

We literally are in a position today where the steam trains and buggy makers have paid off Congress, pushed a massive propaganda effort through the alt-right Faux Fox News type channels, and in general have just denigrated and demonized people for thinking ahead and wanting to pursue new ideas.

We are being run by Luddites.  While the rest of the world - ALL of it - is NOT sitting on their thumbs enjoying the view and the sensation!  That is why we have lost so much.  Solar.  Wind (I didn't mention that earlier, but the biggest players are not here.)  Automotive technology and quality manufacturing.

While our companies are crying and whining about "government overreach" or "too much regulation" - which is BS by the way...and if someone disagrees, I am still waiting for valid examples - Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, etc. just went out and raised mileage, increased dependability, reduced maintenance requirements/intervals, increased safety, and finally may have gotten Ford and GM's attention.  Well, except that Ford can't paint a car that will keep the paint on for 6 years...

[swake]

Flynn is offering to talk in exchange for immunity, and no one wants to give it to him. This is very bad for Trump.

"General Flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit,'' Flynn's attorney, Robert Kelner, said in a statement Thursday evening. "Out of respect for the committees, we will not comment right now on the details of discussions between counsel for General Flynn and the House and Senate intelligence committees, other than to confirm that those discussions have taken place. But it is important to acknowledge the circumstances in which those discussions are occurring.''

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-michael-flynn-immunity-intel-russia-20170330-story.html

[Hoss]

Flynn is offering to talk in exchange for immunity, and no one wants to give it to him. This is very bad for Trump.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-michael-flynn-immunity-intel-russia-20170330-story.html

Glorious karma for sure.

He said this last year:

Michael Flynn to NBC in September: "When you are given immunity, that means you have probably committed a crime."

What a smile show this has become.  Trumpistan is in trouble.

[swake]

Glorious karma for sure.

He said this last year:

What a smile show this has become.  Trumpistan is in trouble.

When you are offered immunity you are probably guilty of a crime. When you are refused immunity, you are going to jail.

[Conan71]

Glorious karma for sure.

He said this last year:

What a smile show this has become.  Trumpistan is in trouble.

Trumpistan or Dumbfuckistan?  Oh wait, no Murr Failin' is in charge of the latter.

[AquaMan]

He has jumped in to the front of the process by offering to give testimony in exchange for immunity. That gives him plausibility to trump's tribe that he has nothing to hide, and that is supported by trump tweets indicating its just a (fake news) witch hunt. When you get past that bs, its a guy offering to spill what is probably already known in exchange for protection from prosecution. The rats are beginning to scurry.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Flynn is offering to talk in exchange for immunity, and no one wants to give it to him. This is very bad for Trump.

This is the danger point for Flynn - Russian operatives who don't play ball properly are dropping like flies recently.... Hope Flynn makes it through the coming days/weeks/months!

[swake]

This is the danger point for Flynn - Russian operatives who don't play ball properly are dropping like flies recently.... Hope Flynn makes it through the coming days/weeks/months!

Mannafort's buddy from Ukraine recently was shot dead.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Mannafort's buddy from Ukraine recently was shot dead.

There have been several.  I posed the question in the office as to whether he will survive to have the opportunity to testify before Putin has him taken out.  It will be a race to convergence with his fate.

[rebound]

It's one thing to be taken out by Putin in Russia.  If Flynn dies here in the US (for any reason), it's going to set off alarms all over the place.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's one thing to be taken out by Putin in Russia.  If Flynn dies here in the US (for any reason), it's going to set off alarms all over the place.

Review the record...groping women didn't set off any alarms.  Pedophilia set off no alarms.  Lying about literally everything he has made a comment on set off no alarms.

Wouldn't be that big a deal...the alt-right would just say, "oh, well, he was a closet liberal anyway..."

He better stay away from Turkey, too!