President Trump- The Implications

[guido911]

According to the CBO report out today the Trumpcare plan that was passed in the house would take away insurance from 23 million people

How does it do that?
$834 billion in cuts to Medicaid
$276 billion in cuts to healthcare subsidies
Those amounts are offset by $117 billion spent to reduce premiums for a net cut of $993 billion in healthcare spending for the poor and middle class

What is done with that money?
$210 billion dollars in no penalties to employers or individuals for not offering/carrying insurance
$119 billion in deficit reduction
$664 billion tax cut to the top 2% of taxpayers

These tax cuts please me. Could be better though. Did you find anywhere else the govt. can cut so I can keep more of my money? And hopefully make Hoss pay more?

[swake]

These tax cuts please me. Could be better though. Did you find anywhere else the govt. can cut so I can keep more of my money? And hopefully make Hoss pay more?

Of course they please the trolls.

But then, aside from the whole human caring aspect and your supposed "Christianess", isn't your wife a doctor? A trillion dollars pulled out of the healthcare system is going to hit the system really hard, and hit doctor's incomes really hard. You personally probably stand to lose a lot more in income than the taxes you may save, because let's face it, you aren't the kind of wealthy this is really send a lot of money back too.

[TulsaMoon]

According to the CBO report out today the Trumpcare plan that was passed in the house would take away insurance from 23 million people

How does it do that?
$834 billion in cuts to Medicaid
$276 billion in cuts to healthcare subsidies
Those amounts are offset by $117 billion spent to reduce premiums for a net cut of $993 billion in healthcare spending for the poor and middle class

What is done with that money?
$210 billion dollars in no penalties to employers or individuals for not offering/carrying insurance
$119 billion in deficit reduction
$664 billion tax cut to the top 2% of taxpayers

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52752

[Conan71]

According to the CBO report out today the Trumpcare plan that was passed in the house would take away insurance from 23 million people

How does it do that?
$834 billion in cuts to Medicaid
$276 billion in cuts to healthcare subsidies
Those amounts are offset by $117 billion spent to reduce premiums for a net cut of $993 billion in healthcare spending for the poor and middle class

What is done with that money?
$210 billion dollars in no penalties to employers or individuals for not offering/carrying insurance
$119 billion in deficit reduction
$664 billion tax cut to the top 2% of taxpayers

But, if the ACA, in its present form, was allowed to keep on keepin' on with no changes, CBO estimated 26 million Americans would not have health insurance coverage in 2026.  Weren't we promised far fewer than that would be without health insurance?

[swake]

But, if the ACA, in its present form, was allowed to keep on keepin' on with no changes, CBO estimated 26 million Americans would not have health insurance coverage in 2026.  Weren't we promised far fewer than that would be without health insurance?

many, if not most of those are people in states that didn't expand medicaid.

[guido911]

Of course they please the trolls.

But then, aside from the whole human caring aspect and your supposed "Christianess", isn't your wife a doctor? A trillion dollars pulled out of the healthcare system is going to hit the system really hard, and hit doctor's incomes really hard. You personally probably stand to lose a lot more in income than the taxes you may save, because let's face it, you aren't the kind of wealthy this is really send a lot of money back too.

Still on that idea that being a Christian means paying taxes. No idea where that comes from.  Maybe if you would try donating money to charitable  organizations you would see the difference. Until then, you sound like  a dumbazz

[swake]

Still on that idea that being a Christian means paying taxes. No idea where that comes from.  Maybe if you would try donating money to charitable  organizations you would see the difference. Until then, you sound like  a dumbazz

I am quite sure that I donate a larger percentage of my income than you do, and to better causes. More than that, I donate time.

You know, taxes do come up in the Bible, as does caring for the poor, a lot. And greed is bad. Really bad.

Romans 13:7 "Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed."

Amos 5:11 "Therefore because you trample on the poor and you exact taxes of grain from him, you have built houses of hewn stone, but you shall not dwell in them; you have planted pleasant vineyards, but you shall not drink their wine."

1 John 3:17 "Rich people who see a brother or sister in need, yet close their hearts against them, cannot claim that they love God."

James 2:15-16 "Suppose there are brothers or sisters who need clothes and don't have enough to eat. What good is there in your saying to them, "God bless you! Keep warm and eat well!" – if you don't give them the necessities of life?"

Proverbs 22:22-23 "Don't take advantage of the poor just because you can; don't take advantage of those who stand helpless in court. The Lord will argue their case for them and threaten the life of anyone who threatens theirs."

Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Dumbazz

[cannon_fodder]

But, if the ACA, in its present form, was allowed to keep on keepin' on with no changes, CBO estimated 26 million Americans would not have health insurance coverage in 2026.  Weren't we promised far fewer than that would be without health insurance?

The ACA has performed pretty much as effectively as expected, after a rough start as people held out for repeal, exchange websites didn't function, and implementation was delayed. the CBO thought the uninsured 2016 rate would be 11%, it was 10%.  Obama  set a bar far lower than that, many say intentionally undercutting the numbers to ensure "success."  But the official government target was dang near spot on.

The CBO estimates that under the Trump plan there will be 26 million additional Americans without health insurance in 10 years .  That is double the number we expect under the current law and it is predicted to be more uninsured people than the United States has ever seen (since we kept track of such a thing).  Exactly the opposite of Trump's promise to make sure everyone has coverage. 

We are currently near a record low for number of  people without health insurance (11.3%, up from 10.9% when Trump took office). It was nearly 18% when the ACA took affect (nearly 50 million people.)  Under previous trends we expect the rate to drop and the total number of people to remain fairly flat.  Under the new plan, we expect to see more people without insurance going forward than we ever have before.

And of course that is ignoring that of the approximately 26,000,000 adults who are not insured, 5.2 Million would be insured if eligible states expanded Medicaid. That would reduce the rate to ~7-8% of the population without health insurance and further reduce the number moving forward.   The current rate is about exactly where the CBO thought ObamaCare would get us, if additional states expanded Medicaid the program would have greatly exceeded expectations.

In short - ACA was as effective in reducing the uninsured rate as expected.  The new plan ends up with more uninsured than ever before (and frankly about where we would have been without the ACA).  All to supposedly "save money."

But the new healthcare law saves us $119 Billion over ten years.  When coupled with the other Trump provisions we would likely see a deficit increase over current projections of $4,000,000,000,000.00 in ten years ($4 Trillion, unless the cuts and increased military spending cause the economy to double or triple its growth rate [which no economist will say] - then it is "only" a $2 Trillion deficit increase over current projections).   Pretending this is something to save the government money doesn't fly.


------
I'm not pointing this out for some "everyone deserves health insurance yay peace and love" reason.  But we have been paying double the money for worse results than most industrialized countries for decades.  At the same time the number of people cut off from all but emergency healthcare has ballooned, leading to even more inefficiencies (so many ER docs have to waste time playing primary care doc or treating conditions that should have been headed off months earlier, then we whine about ER wait times and ER docs not spending enough time with us.  Let alone the general inefficiency of treating stage 4 crisis over prevention or catching it early). Not only does this bankrupt families, it ends up costing ME additional money because I pay for healthcare, which is jacked up to help pay for people's healthcare who bankrupted out of their bills. Of course it is worse when you factor in those who would otherwise be willing or able to work, but can't because of a health issue so are now on disability.

And that's not mentioning the pressure on private sector (and public) employers trying to compete with overseas companies who have a built in efficiency in healthcare.   18% of all GDP in this country is spent on healthcare. That's nearly double the GDP expenditure than the average OECD country and nearly 6 full points above the #2 nation by GDP (Denmark).  That means US companies have to pay a huge amount of employee healthcare and/or pay more to employees.  On average Americans (and/or the government or their employer healthcare) is paying $5,000 each more, per year, for healthcare than the average person in an advanced economy. 

The system has grown inefficient and less than optimally effective.  It has been straying further and further away from "fixing" itself.  I'm not arguing the ACA is a solution, but something has to change. Going back to the way it was as the system grew dysfunctional isn't likely to fix it either, it leaves twice the number of  people without insurance, and doesn't really save money.

[Hoss]

The CBO estimates that under the Trump plan there will be 26 million additional Americans without health insurance in 10 years .  That is double the number we expect under the current law and it is predicted to be more uninsured people than the United States has ever seen (since we kept track of such a thing).  Exactly the opposite of Trump's promise to make sure everyone has coverage. 

Have to shamlessly plug my favorite method of getting well informed news these days....John Oliver did a piece on this earlier in the year and had video from a 60Minutes segment...then afterwards went on to warn the GOP....

https://youtu.be/YEGpriv2TAc?t=17m55s

[AquaMan]

I love it when smart, well prepared, and well informed beats greed, passion and dogma.

[guido911]

I am quite sure that I donate a larger percentage of my income than you do, and to better causes. More than that, I donate time.

You know, taxes do come up in the Bible, as does caring for the poor, a lot. And greed is bad. Really bad.

Dumbazz

About 50% of my practice is pro bono. I'm married to a caring and generous healthcare provider. I give more to charity than you pathetic types pay in taxes. So don't presume to lecture me on greed--especially since you apparently cannot be bothered to be charitable yourself.  But here's your chance, tell us what you do to help those in need. Tell us what you have done to make this country better (or safer for everyone)? Tell us what you have done to provide health care to the poor.

And why are you still taking? My gosh. Learn the freaking law of holes. And not the hole that gets Hoss excited.

[swake]

About 50% of my practice is pro bono. I'm married to a caring and generous healthcare provider. I give more to charity than you pathetic types pay in taxes. So don't presume to lecture me on greed--especially since you apparently cannot be bothered to be charitable yourself.  But here's your chance, tell us what you do to help those in need. Tell us what you have done to make this country better (or safer for everyone)? Tell us what you have done to provide health care to the poor.

And why are you still taking? My gosh. Learn the freaking law of holes. And not the hole that gets Hoss excited.

Sure you do.

[Red Arrow]

Time to post some tax returns.

[Red Arrow]

I am quite sure that I donate a larger percentage of my income than you do, and to better causes.

I can believe that if your daughter didn't get much financial aid at Swarthmore.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And so I am clear, I do not know what Trump or his staff knew or did re: Russia. My "beef" is largely just the immense hypocrisy being exhibited by Swake, the media, and others when it comes to this entire thing. Freakin Obama told Russia after the 2012 election he would have more flexibility.


To me, that is way more concerning than any of this Russia disclosing Hillary's and DNC's emails those people drafted. Or that Trump benefited or not from those disclosures. And Hillary's Russian uranium deal? That bothers me too. But hell, I have not become singularly obsessed with this stuff because I do not believe for one damned minute that Hillary, Obama, or Trump are/were working with "the enemy" to destroy this country.

Really??   Ultimate projection moment there.... talking about the mote of hypocrisy from swake, media, etc, while absolutely reveling in the beam of hypocrisy with every comment he makes shown by Trump.