President Trump- The Implications

[patric]

The top of patric's head during "National Police Week"?

(chuckles knowingly)  As an NPS Volunteer Interpreter years ago I regularly participated in Police Week programs, got to shake the hand of one of the Rangers that recovered one of the incendiary grenades from the Branch Davidian fire.  I appreciate good police work, am less lenient when its bad.

[TeeDub]

"States Rights" is a little general
     

Thanks for a much more verbose and better explained version.   Some regulations are necessary, but the spin on this one is absolutely one sided.   Much like the "don't let hunters shoot the deer, pay for sharpshooters" argument that many people use.  

Why use taxpayer dollars for something when you can let the public pay you?

[heironymouspasparagus]

From an old article, this almost looks like more of a states rights issue.  

https://www.adn.com/outdoors/article/feds-ban-several-controversial-hunting-practices-preserves-alaska/2015/10/23/

Nothing "states rights" about Federal land.  By definition.  (Russia working with Rupert Murdoch to make it an issue.)



Not arguing about anything you said, just open commentary on the practices that were prohibited;

These were - and are - practices that are banned in many other states and supported by real wildlife departments nationwide.  Because they are cheesy, sleazy, slimeball ways to kill animals.  Nothing "sporting" about it - they should just go to a friends farm and shoot a cow if that's how they want to do it.   Alaska can play their little boy, 6th grade "hunters" games, on state land.  We should not have to put up with them doing it on Federal land.

And using dogs for retrieving waterfowl is not the same as running a bear to corner it to shoot.

These are the crappy BS things that were prohibited - but Trump feels are 'good practice'.  And their state law also prohibits at least the last one. (No, I haven't looked up the rest in AK regulations.)


• Taking wolves and coyotes (including pups) during the animals' denning season.

• Taking black bears with artificial light at den sites.

• Taking brown or black bears attracted to bait.

• Using dogs in black bear hunts. State law currently prohibits using dogs to hunt big game, with an exception for black bears. The park service will no longer honor this exception on national preserves.

• Shooting swimming caribou, a practice primarily used in the Noatak National Preserve in Northwest Alaska. Currently, state law prohibits taking big game that is swimming, but hunters may shoot a swimming caribou from a boat under power, and hunters can also shoot a caribou that has emerged from the water on the shoreline while the hunter is still in a moving boat. The new park service regulations will no longer recognize those exceptions on preserves.

[rebound]

Nothing "states rights" about Federal land.  By definition.  (Russia working with Rupert Murdoch to make it an issue.)

Not arguing about anything you said, just open commentary on the practices that were prohibited;

These were - and are - practices that are banned in many other states and supported by real wildlife departments nationwide.  Because they are cheesy, sleazy, slimeball ways to kill animals.  Nothing "sporting" about it - they should just go to a friends farm and shoot a cow if that's how they want to do it.   Alaska can play their little boy, 6th grade "hunters" games, on state land.  We should not have to put up with them doing it on Federal land.

Some commentary, as an active hunter who struggles with these type of ethics issues every year...

And using dogs for retrieving waterfowl is not the same as running a bear to corner it to shoot.

Yes, for waterfowl.  But what about pointing dogs for upland birds?   We use them to track down and pin the bird, and we walk up and (try to) shoot them.  Very similar in concept to chasing bigger game with tracking dogs.  (I'm now on my fourth upland dog, and avid hunter.  So, not arguing against bird dogs.)

These are the crappy BS things that were prohibited - but Trump feels are 'good practice'.  And their state law also prohibits at least the last one. (No, I haven't looked up the rest in AK regulations.)

• Taking wolves and coyotes (including pups) during the animals' denning season.
• Taking black bears with artificial light at den sites.

Agreed.  Per my  earlier comments.  Hunting a den or pups is (to me) outrageous.

• Taking brown or black bears attracted to bait.

See my earlier comments about baiting.   Scents and attractants are very common in hunting.  I'm not really "for it", but I put this in a different category than the other items.

• Using dogs in black bear hunts. State law currently prohibits using dogs to hunt big game, with an exception for black bears. The park service will no longer honor this exception on national preserves.

On the fence on this one.  Hunting with dogs is allowed in OK for pigs, raccoons, and coyotes, (at least, may be others...)  And of course upland birds as well.  I probably agree with this restriction for bears personally, but have hard time arguing against it as a general prohibition.

• Shooting swimming caribou, a practice primarily used in the Noatak National Preserve in Northwest Alaska. Currently, state law prohibits taking big game that is swimming, but hunters may shoot a swimming caribou from a boat under power, and hunters can also shoot a caribou that has emerged from the water on the shoreline while the hunter is still in a moving boat. The new park service regulations will no longer recognize those exceptions on preserves.

This one is almost certainly an exception due to the indigenous inuit population.  They have hunted caribou from boats during their migration for centuries.   There is enormous tension up there (and in other areas, such as the Pac NW related to Salmon harvest) between indigenous and non-native hunting population.   Natives argue for their "rights" to hunt ancestrally, and everybody else chaffes at the exception.  To me, it's the use of motors that is most troublesome and shouldn't be protected for the Natives.  But again, this very political.

[TeeDub]

Bear baiting is allowed in Oklahoma (although not in WMAs.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

Some commentary, as an active hunter who struggles with these type of ethics issues every year...

Yes, for waterfowl.  But what about pointing dogs for upland birds?   We use them to track down and pin the bird, and we walk up and (try to) shoot them.  Very similar in concept to chasing bigger game with tracking dogs.  (I'm now on my fourth upland dog, and avid hunter.  So, not arguing against bird dogs.)


Agreed.  Per my  earlier comments.  Hunting a den or pups is (to me) outrageous.

See my earlier comments about baiting.   Scents and attractants are very common in hunting.  I'm not really "for it", but I put this in a different category than the other items.

On the fence on this one.  Hunting with dogs is allowed in OK for pigs, raccoons, and coyotes, (at least, may be others...)  And of course upland birds as well.  I probably agree with this restriction for bears personally, but have hard time arguing against it as a general prohibition.

This one is almost certainly an exception due to the indigenous inuit population.  They have hunted caribou from boats during their migration for centuries.   There is enormous tension up there (and in other areas, such as the Pac NW related to Salmon harvest) between indigenous and non-native hunting population.   Natives argue for their "rights" to hunt ancestrally, and everybody else chaffes at the exception.  To me, it's the use of motors that is most troublesome and shouldn't be protected for the Natives.  But again, this very political.

Got mixed feelings about the bird hunting.  I have done quite a bit of pheasant and quail hunting - when I was younger - a couple times with OPD (other people's dogs) but mostly without and on foot.  With the dogs it was noticeably easier but felt somehow "too easy" or like I was 'guilty' of something.... I didn't really care for it, but could see how the guys that had them would appreciate the help - when I get old (older?), I may change my mind on that...not sure.  Most of my bird hunting is waterfowl, so don't really get much contact with the others.  Grandfather had a couple of really good dogs, but I only got to the field to watch with them, since I was only about 4 - 5.  They didn't let me shoot until about 8 and the dogs were old and retired by then.


Hunting a den or in the breeding season is disgusting.  No matter what the animal.  Exactly the same as going out and shooting a doe AND the spring fawn with the spots on.  No difference at all.  One of the big reasons animals were market hunted almost to extinction 120 years ago until real sportsman stood up and got wildlife departments started in this nation.   May as well just walk to the pasture and shoot that cow and calf....get more meat!   And about as much "sport".


Scents and attractants are common.  Not a fan.  If one is that much an amateur at hunting, then keep practicing until one can do it right.  Now that I have a little space to grow some things, there is the temptation to put a couple rows of corn outside the garden fence, though....lol.


You mention hunting with dogs for pigs, raccoons, and coyotes...  Yeah, it is done a lot.  Have relatives and friends who do that for raccoon.  Just not to my taste.  Amateur hour again.

Except for hogs.  I make a special exemption for hogs - I don't consider that to be hunting at all.  I consider it to be a necessary program of extermination.  Neighbors in one of our places have said for years that they have never seen hogs in the neighborhood, which I thought was a little odd - but I had not seen any either.  Skiatook is only a few miles away and I have heard of sightings there.  One day, SWMBO and I were walking along the road enjoying a spring day and as we came to a little creek at edge of the place, there was a dead hog in the creek, probably hit by a car.  Not a feral hog, but a wild boar, razorback style hog.  So I know they are there.   And I am gonna bait, trap, use dogs, helicopters, and whatever I can to catch as many as possible and kill them.  Want some bacon?   Which goes to another discussion had around here - I sure won't be doing any of that with a 5 shot bolt action rifle.  I will have several 30 round magazines for my Mini-14.  THAT is why I want an AR type semi-auto.  Seen modest size hog tear up a dog... And I have no qualms about stacking the deck as heavy as I can in my favor.  Will also be wearing my chain saw leggings until I can find something even better for hunting them.



I started to say something about First Nations people, but this particular set of regulations seems to be mostly for non-native people in the area - like Jewel's family, since everyone seems to know who they are.  There are more than adequate resources for 'subsistence' hunting without allowing this stuff.  The Natives seem to have a different set of regulations - they are allowed to hunt at least some of the time, from boats, with motors, caribou and seals, IIRC.  (My only Inuit friend died a few years ago, so way out of touch now.)  Doesn't bother me at all for them to get special dispensation.  1%er's been getting special dispensations for 400 years, so anytime someone who has been treated as badly as extermination and genocide, more power...  

[Breadburner]

Sinkhole on Whitehouse lawn...symbolic...

Did anyone get Hillary out yet.....

[heironymouspasparagus]

Did anyone get Hillary out yet.....

Guess maybe he IS draining the swamp!!??   Shows that the biggest part of it IS in the White House even as we speak!!

[Hoss]

All this winning.

http://www.newson6.com/story/38268750/trump-cancels-north-korean-summit

[RecycleMichael]

How can I get some Bear meat?

The Packer Fan club has tailgate parties and we play the Bears twice a year.

I would trade fine bourbon for Bear meat.

[patric]

All this winning.

http://www.newson6.com/story/38268750/trump-cancels-north-korean-summit

(BEIJING) — A study by Chinese geologists shows the mountain above North Korea's main nuclear test site has collapsed under the stress of the explosions, rendering it unsafe for further testing and necessitating monitoring for any leaking radiation.

The test site was destroyed, so why not pretend to close it down and butter up the Great Orange Leader with some reproduction Nobel Prize medallions?

[heironymouspasparagus]

How can I get some Bear meat?

The Packer Fan club has tailgate parties and we play the Bears twice a year.

I would trade fine bourbon for Bear meat.

I am going to Tennessee this summer - there are two bears living back behind the old family homestead.  I will try to get some and bring it back!   I need a rug anyway...!


Go Packers!!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Side note - curiosity piqued;  is anyone actually watching Roseanne now that they have had a "full season" of shows?   


9 episodes is a season, huh...?

[Hoss]

Side note - curiosity piqued;  is anyone actually watching Roseanne now that they have had a "full season" of shows?   


9 episodes is a season, huh...?

That's the new norm for newer shows.  GoT started that with their 10 episodes per season.  Last season just seven, next season will be six (however each episode will likely be near feature length at around 90 minutes).  Doesn't require a longer attention span that might get viewers bored by episode 12 or so.

[Townsend]

All this winning.

http://www.newson6.com/story/38268750/trump-cancels-north-korean-summit

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-cancels-north-korea-summit/index.html

"I have spoken to South Korea and Japan, and they are not only ready should foolish or reckless acts be taken by North Korea, but they are willing to shoulder much of the cost of any financial burden, any of the costs associated by the United States in operations if such an unfortunate situation is forced upon us," Trump said.

I wonder what Japan and South Korea think of that.  I'm sure they're ready to pay for that wall.

Freaking ball sack