President Trump- The Implications

[guido911]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/28/politics/donald-trump-russia-putin-summit/index.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trump-backs-russia-ahead-of-nato-putin-summits/564011/


Tech Giants - Russia messed with our elections.
CIA - Russia messed with our elections.
NSA - Russia messed with our elections.
DOD - Russia messed with our elections.
FBI - Russia messed with our elections.
Congress - Russia messed with our elections.
Most Americans - Russia messed with our elections.
Allies - Russia messed with your elections.

Russia - we totally didn't mess with your elections.

Trump -  ...

Um..who was president when all this meddling took place? And what was his response?

[guido911]

It's been a little quiet in this forum this week. I believe I know why...

[heironymouspasparagus]

More lies for the Minions.

But since they consider adding trillions to the debt is a good thing, I guess there is no surprise here.



https://thinkprogress.org/larry-kudlow-lies-about-federal-deficit-on-fox-business-7f4c5caac6d5/

[Breadburner]

Well..It looks like another rough week for the T.F.N C.j.C....The Teflon Don gets to pick another S.C.O.T.U.S....(I can smell the hair burning)....Former..Canadian Prime Minister (Stephen Harper) is coming to beg forgiveness from The Don for Tru'Grope the Dope's disrespect...Unemployment at an all time low across the board...Hispanic approval rating up 10%...And a roaring economy...Another rough weekend for the T.F.N C.j.C..Winning....!!!!

[Breadburner]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/28/politics/donald-trump-russia-putin-summit/index.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trump-backs-russia-ahead-of-nato-putin-summits/564011/


Tech Giants - Russia messed with our elections.
CIA - Russia messed with our elections.
NSA - Russia messed with our elections.
DOD - Russia messed with our elections.
FBI - Russia messed with our elections.
Congress - Russia messed with our elections.
Most Americans - Russia messed with our elections.
Allies - Russia messed with your elections.

Russia - we totally didn't mess with your elections.

Trump -  ...

Have you been drug tested....

[guido911]

Like this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw8LagPx8oY#action=share

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well..It looks like another rough week for the T.F.N C.j.C....The Teflon Don gets to pick another S.C.O.T.U.S....(I can smell the hair burning)....Former..Canadian Prime Minister (Stephen Harper) is coming to beg forgiveness from The Don for Tru'Grope the Dope's disrespect...Unemployment at an all time low across the board...Hispanic approval rating up 10%...And a roaring economy...Another rough weekend for the T.F.N C.j.C..Winning....!!!!

Troll, troll, troll your boat
  Gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
  Life is but a methane and nitrous oxide event....

[heironymouspasparagus]

Of course he won't call for lowering flags after a workplace massacre...It's what Trump is.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-declines-request-to-lower-flags-in-memory-of-capital-gazette-shooting-victims/ar-AAzv18p?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

[heironymouspasparagus]

Here is some more stupid in Trump's trade war with our friends...and letting Russia off the hook completely.  These are goods only, not including services, which is a whole other pile of money.

We are imposing tariffs on Canada - apparently because we don't have much of a trade deficit with them!   Yeah, makes perfect sense, especially when you tell the world there is a "special place in hell" for those horrible trading partners like that!!   That buy pretty much as much from us as we buy from them....

Russia is a "partner" that runs from $10 to $20 billion in deficits with us, while buying $5 - 10 billion from us.  Otherwise known as a pittance...but that IS the overall Russian economy that we have been propping up for years.

China - some perspective for everyone but the Minions, since they had inadequate sense to understand it anyway...   We have about $650 billion in total trade with China every year - it fluctuates.  So we are going to 'trade war' for a trade deficit of a few hundred billion...   Really, stupid people??   So what you are complaining about in very real terms is that we send them money for goods - all the cheap toys for your kids and everything at Harbor Freight that you don't wanna spend money on from a real tool company!  And save a LOT over buying it from the real tool companies.  And as part of that trade, China ships us stuff that costs us 1/4 of what it would otherwise, THEN they actually send us some of that money back in the form of buying US treasuries - to the tune of a couple trillion dollars!  Plus the stuff they buy from us.   So to review, we give them money, they give us stuff, then they give us money back...  Ah, the modern economy is a wondrous thing to behold!

And now, we are putting in barriers that will raise your (and mine) costs by 25% of materials.  Slowing economic activity, since now you can only buy less.  Leading to reduced sales, loss of jobs, and our next recession!  I give it 18 months, outside, 6 months short estimate.   Make America Great Again...!!  

Bonus!   We also piss off (and on) our best allies and insult them directly!!  Go Team Minion!!


For the non-Minions...valid information!

Canada
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

Russia
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html

China
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

[Ed W]

We buy 88% of Canada's steel production. Tariffs on that will put people out of work in both countries. How is that winning?

Tariffs imposed on H-D allow European motorcycle manufacturers a 31% cost advantage. Moving production to Europe is just good business sense. (As an aside, Trump touts his business acumen. Did he not see this?) And now he's saying that American consumers are reacting negatively to this news because H-D sales were down...in 2017...long before he announced tariffs.

Huh?

[heironymouspasparagus]

We buy 88% of Canada's steel production. Tariffs on that will put people out of work in both countries. How is that winning?

Tariffs imposed on H-D allow European motorcycle manufacturers a 31% cost advantage. Moving production to Europe is just good business sense. (As an aside, Trump touts his business acumen. Did he not see this?) And now he's saying that American consumers are reacting negatively to this news because H-D sales were down...in 2017...long before he announced tariffs.

Huh?

Yeah.  Trump World is a very ugly place...the Minions will love it though.  Saw a meme where he said that everyone that has bought a Harley voted for him.  And of course, as always, another lie.

[cannon_fodder]

The trade war thing makes me very disappointed.  There are trade imbalances which we could address.  We have market power and could use it as leverage - so some of Canada's agricultural restrictions which they pretend are for crop safety, or European car laws that really were needed to get the auto industry restarted, or China's IP shenanigans could all be addressed.  Instead of actually addressing those trade barriers in a tough but appropriate way, we used them as an excuse to erect new trade barriers.  

So what happens when you walk up and shove someone, even if you have a legitimate gripe? Do they generally admit you have a real concern and give you want you want, or do they generally push back?  We put new tariffs on XY and Z. Then they slap new tariffs on us.  But because we are in a trade war with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU at the same time, it is much easier for them to adjust than it is for us. Everyone loses no matter what, but it looks like the US will lose more than our allies/adversaries.

It seems like Trump is a mercantilist. He appears to think that in every transaction someone wins and someone loses. So if China is selling an iPhone to the United States... that must mean China is winning. Simple. Easy. Also wrong, but why make it more complicated than it was in the 17th Century?

In addition to appealing to his sense of "winning," a trade war makes sense if you only look at the simplest affects.  We ban Canada steel, America make more steel.  You have to look at secondary affects to see where the problems start:  for every new steel job in the USA, many America jobs that depend on the use of steel will be lost.  For every steel job lost in Canada, an American loses an export customer.  For every import made more expensive, many American consumers are punished.  Let alone the aforementioned retaliation we should expect (and have seen).  

There are real issues we could have addressed, I think Trump being mad enough to go to a full scale trade war could have been positive leverage to get most  of what we wanted and really opened up markets to American companies. But an actual trade war is lose-lose.  Appearing "tough" should not be more important than actually accomplishing goals.

[Conan71]

Just as long as I don't have to pay more for poutine, screw the Canadians.

[rebound]

It seems like Trump is a mercantilist. He appears to think that in every transaction someone wins and someone loses. So if China is selling an iPhone to the United States... that must mean China is winning. Simple. Easy. Also wrong, but why make it more complicated than it was in the 17th Century?

This has been the problem (or "issue", call it what you want...) from the start.  In terms of actual political positions, I could get behind any number of his campaign points (Immigration: Yes, we definitely need tighter borders and a firm plan for dealing with immigrants.   Trade: Yes, we should clean up any imbalances.  Etc. Etc.) 

But Trump is a Deal guy.  Specifically the deal that is right in front of him at the time.  He has to win on that particular deal, regardless of the long-term outcomes or political consequences.  He is, as you note, transactional.  Which is great for a salesman, but not a President.

Which is why it is both funny and also discouraging to see some on this forum talking about "all the winning" right now.   Kudos to Trump for Korea (so far), but for most of the other stuff, well, don't count your chickens just yet. 

[Conan71]

The trade war thing makes me very disappointed.  There are trade imbalances which we could address.  We have market power and could use it as leverage - so some of Canada's agricultural restrictions which they pretend are for crop safety, or European car laws that really were needed to get the auto industry restarted, or China's IP shenanigans could all be addressed.  Instead of actually addressing those trade barriers in a tough but appropriate way, we used them as an excuse to erect new trade barriers.  

So what happens when you walk up and shove someone, even if you have a legitimate gripe? Do they generally admit you have a real concern and give you want you want, or do they generally push back?  We put new tariffs on XY and Z. Then they slap new tariffs on us.  But because we are in a trade war with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU at the same time, it is much easier for them to adjust than it is for us. Everyone loses no matter what, but it looks like the US will lose more than our allies/adversaries.

It seems like Trump is a mercantilist. He appears to think that in every transaction someone wins and someone loses. So if China is selling an iPhone to the United States... that must mean China is winning. Simple. Easy. Also wrong, but why make it more complicated than it was in the 17th Century?

In addition to appealing to his sense of "winning," a trade war makes sense if you only look at the simplest affects.  We ban Canada steel, America make more steel.  You have to look at secondary affects to see where the problems start:  for every new steel job in the USA, many America jobs that depend on the use of steel will be lost.  For every steel job lost in Canada, an American loses an export customer.  For every import made more expensive, many American consumers are punished.  Let alone the aforementioned retaliation we should expect (and have seen).  

There are real issues we could have addressed, I think Trump being mad enough to go to a full scale trade war could have been positive leverage to get most  of what we wanted and really opened up markets to American companies. But an actual trade war is lose-lose.  Appearing "tough" should not be more important than actually accomplishing goals.

To the unwashed masses, investment in US steel production capacity appears to be the result of the tariffs and I cannot find anything which seems to prove this.  The Indian steel company which is investing $1B+ on production expansion in the US is doing so as global demand is at an all-time high.  They are also investing heavily in their plants in India.  I can't find one credible shred of evidence any creation of US jobs in the steel industry is a direct result of tariffs but rather the uptick in global steel demand.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but every article I've read about JSW investing heavily in the US (which Trumpsters have been posting on FB as an example of "winning") is related to global demand not trade policy.