5 Story Parking Garage on 4th & Main

[johrasephoenix]

Tulsa World just announced Kanbar is building a 5 story parking garage on 3rd & Main.  

My initial thoughts are:

a) Wow, Tulsa's original Main Street where the movie palaces and shopping and urban life once were is now a Tulsa Parking Authority garage looking at a Kanbar parking garage.  The pictures of the old street hanging on the wall inside the TPA garage are so heartbreaking that I can't go in there anymore.

b) This will likely kill what little street life remains on Main Street.  

c) That said, parking garages don't have to suck.  It is possible to build parking garages that are assets to the neighborhood with street level activity and upper floors that hide their use.  Charleston and Boston have a bunch of great examples of this.  

d) Parking garages are much, much, much better than surface parking.  As demand for downtown space grows, if we can house growing demand for parking in garages rather than surface lots our city will be much better.  Reduced demand for surface parking combined with development pressure downtown will hopefully encourage development on some of the Deco's "missing teeth" surface lots.

e) The lack of easy "no-thinking-required" parking has really hurt the Deco district relative to the rest of downtown.  Hopefully adequate garage parking will help that.

f) Do I trust Kanbar to deliver a high quality parking garage with ground floor activity and a masking facade on higher floors?   Not a cheap exposed concrete goliath?  They own an enormous amount of property downtown and development that increases the desirability of downtown boosts their property values.  That requires a long view, however, and many developers don't have a long view.  


Modified thread title to read 4th and Main, instead of 3rd and Main. - Moderator

[SXSW]

This absolutely should have ground floor retail fronting Main.  If done right it could be a nice addition and better than the seldom-used sunken garden.  Hopefully the sculpture/fountain there finds a new home downtown.

[davideinstein]

There's enough parking in the area. We need more businesses.

[erfalf]

A couple of things:

1. It's fourth and main?

2. Has Kanbar done garages before? Didn't know they were in the new development sphere. Far as I can tell they just purchase/own pre-existing buildings. What kind of work have they done in the past. My guess would be that it will be quite utilitarian.

3. Was the plaza thing for First Place really all that useful anyway. Is it a loss at all. I thought most of it was sub grade anyhow. I'm not down there often (weekends usually) but it never seems like something that integrates well at all with it's surroundings.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

The comments on the World's article already make me want to (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[hello]

Yay! Now we'll have three hideous parking garages within a block of each other. Sure glad they had the foresight years ago to tear down all those beautiful buildings-would hate for them to have gotten in the way of this "progress."

[DowntownDan]

This absolutely should have ground floor retail fronting Main.  If done right it could be a nice addition and better than the seldom-used sunken garden.  Hopefully the sculpture/fountain there finds a new home downtown.

I caught wind of this about a year ago and there was already a fight to try and get Kanbar to install street level retail.  It told me all I needed to know, they don't want to do it, and developers always win in this town.

[cannon_fodder]

I tried to pull the application online and failed. Here is the permit map:
http://maps.cityoftulsa.org/permits/

Here is the permit status of 415 S Main:
http://timeline.cityoftulsa.org/Timeline4/PlanReview.aspx?ApKey=632742&Impersonate=yes

But I couldn't meander my way to the actual application or presentation.
- - -

Berkshire/Tulsa World is working on redeveloping the old "Arby's" building at 4th and Main, they likely need a parking contract withe the TPA in the Main Mall parking garage (and hopefully a sky bridge or tunnel!).  First Place Tower has a couple of significant long term leases - most notably OneGas, that likely include available parking requirements. So I wonder if more parking is "needed" because the Main Mall garage is filling up, or if it cash flows better for First Place Tower to build their own garage to supply the required parking?  Or a combination thereof.

The fact that someone is willing to invest $12mil in structured parking is probably a very good sign that the area is doing well!  The loss of the structures years ago was tragic, but my positive spin is demand for parking indicates that people are using the area.

[BKDotCom]

It's a good sign, but seems a bit short-sighted.
I don't know how soon autonomous vehicles are going to be here, but it seems that it's going to be "soon".
20 years, 30 years?   If it makes sense to build - knowing it will be unnecessary in 30 years - so-be-it.

(Autonomous car drops you off at the door and goes to park itself or uber itself while you're doing whatever...  no need for the parking structure to be nearby)

[Bamboo World]

The site is about 875 feet from Iron Gate.   

[SXSW]

I caught wind of this about a year ago and there was already a fight to try and get Kanbar to install street level retail.  It told me all I needed to know, they don't want to do it, and developers always win in this town.

I get it if this was on Cincinnati or Cheyenne but fronting MAIN makes the most sense for retail space where there's already a base of restaurants and shops.  The City should deny if it doesn't.  Doesn't new development have to follow the downtown master plan?

[johrasephoenix]

When I was in Miami I saw 4-5 story parking garages concealed with ivy and a horizontal gardenish thing.  It still had the same poured concrete grossness underneath, but the ivy gave it a touch of class for I'm sure a much smaller price than a brick facade. 

That plaza isn't exactly a loss.  Hopefully someone can pressure Kanbar into making the garage nice.  Something I've noticed is that although there are a ton of private garages downtown, it isn't 100% clear how much they cost or if they're open at night so even though they provide spaces they aren't necessarily used outside of business hours from regular office tenants.  Hopefully we can find a way to remedy that so the huge amount of garage parking available in the Deco is actually painlessly available on the weekend for people seeking entertainment, shopping, etc. 

[TheArtist]

Is this going in where the sunken plaza is that has the fountain sculpture that used to be where the Vault is now?   If so I hope Kanbar realizes that that sculpture is probably one of the most valuable pieces of art he owns.  I would guess its worth around $800,000 or more (which is worth more than some buildings have sold for downtown lol).

[swake]

Is this going in where the sunken plaza is that has the fountain sculpture that used to be where the Vault is now?   If so I hope Kanbar realizes that that sculpture is probably one of the most valuable pieces of art he owns.  I would guess its worth around $800,000 or more (which is worth more than some buildings have sold for downtown lol).

I'm sure he does not. You should offer to remove it for him for free.

[TheArtist]

I'm sure he does not. You should offer to remove it for him for free.

I will give it a try  

Its such an ugly, strange looking piece of metal. Bet its pretty heavy too. Will cost me a lot to haul it off but I will be willing to do it as a favor.  

Also, I may have underestimated its scrap metal value...

http://artist.christies.com/Harry-Bertoia--11973.aspx

https://www.bonhams.com/press_release/13305/

I am trying to remember.  Years ago I saw one that was similar to the one in Tulsa, but smaller, go for, was it $500,000 or 5 mill?  Cant recall.  Think it was purchased by the Philly Museum of Art, may do some research.  Anyway, I always thought it so odd that the one here is just sitting outside in some hole with nary a mention about it as being one of the most significant pieces of art downtown.