Big boxes are crumbling around us

[swake]

OKC didn't exactly close Crossroads - it was very much like Eastland here in Tulsa - gangs, punks, and thugs were allowed to take over and scare regular customers away.  I was in that area a lot for the last 3 or 4 years of that.  The local hobby train club had one of the empty stores as a place for model trains for a few years.  I haven't been there in 3 or 4 yrs, so don't know if it is still around...

Eastland isn't a mall anymore, but it's also not dead like Crossroads and so many other malls. It's been completely repurposed into a huge office complex. The old anchors are large call centers, the central parts of the mall has technical colleges, day cares and state offices like the DMV and there are still restaurants in the middle where the food court and main hall were. I've been there a couple of times in the last year getting my son his first DL and it's pretty full.

Thankfully Tulsa doesn't have a lot of dead empty malls. At one time by my count we had eight malls, including three at 41st and Yale alone. Now we have two total and one is sick.

Woodland Hills Mall is healthy
Promenade isn't healthy, but it's also pretty far from dead

Tulsa's dead malls:
Eastland Mall is now the Eastgate office complex
Southroads Mall was reconstructed as Southroads Shopping Center (which is funny because Promenade across the street was an outdoor shopping center rebuilt into a mall)
The Annex Mall was torn down and replaced by new retail buildings as part of the Southroads Shopping Center (Annex Mall was next to Southroads)
The Kensington Galleria Mall is now an office complex
The Williams Center Forum downtown is office space as part of the Williams Center
The was an outlet mall in Broken Arrow that is now a church, I forget the name of the mall, I think it's Battlecreek Church or something like that.

Were there other malls that are now gone?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Eastland isn't a mall anymore, but it's also not dead like Crossroads and so many other malls. It's been completely repurposed into a huge office complex. The old anchors are large call centers, the central parts of the mall has technical colleges, day cares and state offices like the DMV and there are still restaurants in the middle where the food court and main hall were. I've been there a couple of times in the last year getting my son his first DL and it's pretty full.

Thankfully Tulsa doesn't have a lot of dead empty malls. At one time by my count we had eight malls, including three at 41st and Yale alone. Now we have two total and one is sick.

Woodland Hills Mall is healthy
Promenade isn't healthy, but it's also pretty far from dead

Tulsa's dead malls:
Eastland Mall is now the Eastgate office complex
Southroads Mall was reconstructed as Southroads Shopping Center (which is funny because Promenade across the street was an outdoor shopping center rebuilt into a mall)
The Annex Mall was torn down and replaced by new retail buildings as part of the Southroads Shopping Center (Annex Mall was next to Southroads)
The Kensington Galleria Mall is now an office complex
The Williams Center Forum downtown is office space as part of the Williams Center
The was an outlet mall in Broken Arrow that is now a church, I forget the name of the mall, I think it's Battlecreek Church or something like that.

Were there other malls that are now gone?

Like I said, I haven't been to Crossroads for a few years, but it is ALWAYS busy around there - the parking lot isn't full, but there are a good number of cars most times I go by.  May have to drop in sometime soon just to see what is happening...

I think the BA mall was called Factory Outlet Mall...or something similar.  Then when they went bust, it was called Gracemont for a while.  Now Battle Creek something is right...   

[patric]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/12/your-shuttered-sears-store-could-soon-be-demolished-heres-why.html

[Oil Capital]

Any info or rumors on what might go in the vacant Sears space at Woodland Hills?

Or the vacant Macy's space at the Promenade?

[Conan71]

Any info or rumors on what might go in the vacant Sears space at Woodland Hills?

Or the vacant Macy's space at the Promenade?

I hate to state the obvious but nothing terribly inspired.  I'm betting either a minimum wage call center or a mega-church.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I hate to state the obvious but nothing terribly inspired.  I'm betting either a minimum wage call center or a mega-church.

Broken Arrow just decided to let 'yet another church' take over the old Hobby Lobby on S Elm.  Great use of that space!!   Not.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Broken Arrow just decided to let 'yet another church' take over the old Hobby Lobby on S Elm.  Great use of that space!!   Not.

The churches are going to go in somewhere. Better to repurpose an existing building that's hard for just about anything to retrofit than build new. BA is already infinite sprawl so seems like no real loss there. Better there than in empty farmland.

Churches are consolidating rapidly with many more of these mega churches to come. Smaller, older churches are declining while people are moving to larger congregations of newer flashier churches. The long game looks bleak for churches, even mega churches, as most future gains will be siphoning from other congregations as young Americans are choosing "no religion" as their top religion.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2018/11/29/how-many-churches-close-per-year/


So in summary the progression of the future as retail declines is:
Big Box Retail --> Mega Churches
Old Small Churches --> Micro-Breweries

Not sure what'll happen to the many mid-sized ugly churches that are fit for no other purpose. I'm guessing like what happened to the old unsightly church in downtown BA, they'll mostly be demolished.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The churches are going to go in somewhere. Better to repurpose an existing building that's hard for just about anything to retrofit than build new. BA is already infinite sprawl so seems like no real loss there. Better there than in empty farmland.

Churches are consolidating rapidly with many more of these mega churches to come. Smaller, older churches are declining while people are moving to larger congregations of newer flashier churches. The long game looks bleak for churches, even mega churches, as most future gains will be siphoning from other congregations as young Americans are choosing "no religion" as their top religion.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2018/11/29/how-many-churches-close-per-year/


So in summary the progression of the future as retail declines is:
Big Box Retail --> Mega Churches
Old Small Churches --> Micro-Breweries

Not sure what'll happen to the many mid-sized ugly churches that are fit for no other purpose. I'm guessing like what happened to the old unsightly church in downtown BA, they'll mostly be demolished.

Sadly, true.

Glitz and glam...just what Jesus had in mind, no doubt.

Was thinking about this some more yesterday - will have to do some re-reading, but IIRC, all his events/talks/sermons, etc, were outdoors.  No buildings at all.  In fact, when he visited a building he usually kinda went all 'honey-badger' on them.  I'm thinking churches in general, and megachurches in particular (this includes a lot of really big, old cathedrals) lost track of the whole point long ago.  They certainly aren't 'honoring' the guy they talk about all the time.  Should be the church OF Jesus, not the church ABOUT Jesus.  IF ya really wanna be Christian.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Sadly, true.

Glitz and glam...just what Jesus had in mind, no doubt.

Was thinking about this some more yesterday - will have to do some re-reading, but IIRC, all his events/talks/sermons, etc, were outdoors.  No buildings at all.  In fact, when he visited a building he usually kinda went all 'honey-badger' on them.  I'm thinking churches in general, and megachurches in particular (this includes a lot of really big, old cathedrals) lost track of the whole point long ago.  They certainly aren't 'honoring' the guy they talk about all the time.  Should be the church OF Jesus, not the church ABOUT Jesus.  IF ya really wanna be Christian.

Remember the exact quote God said to Peter: "On this rock, I will build my mega-church(es)"

And don't forget Jesus' sermon on the mount: "Blessed are those who prosper, for they shall be blessed"

[heironymouspasparagus]

Remember the exact quote God said to Peter: "On this rock, I will build my mega-church(es)"

And don't forget Jesus' sermon on the mount: "Blessed are those who prosper, for they shall be blessed"

It's a real pain to try to watch video on fox23news here, so I very seldom try.  But this one is worth the effort.  This church 'gets' it.  Jesus also was an immigrant.  If his family had been treated the way we treat people, there would likely not have been a major religion.

"Away in a manger, no crib for a bed...the little Lord Jesus locked up by the Feds..."

https://www.fox23.com/news/tulsa-church-makes-political-statement-with-nativity-scene-addition/891607472