Pedestrian Bridge

[Arkansas Rio Gator]

That would sure be better than nothing. One problem (other than money), if there is one, might have to do with this...

"Tulsa's Gathering Place LLC Director and Trustee Jeff Stava is overseeing the bridge project. He said shade structures on pedestrian bridges are uncommon, and this one would have to be built to withstand winds up to 75 mph."

https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/tulsa-city-council-takes-issue-pared-down-new-arkansas-river-pedestrian-bridge#stream/0


Also, on another point... The claim about the bridge's structural safety in the World letter cited above, if I understand it correctly, was that it was deemed unsafe for the double-decker design... (The idea being that it could be repaired/made safe, otherwise...)

[Arkansas Rio Gator]

A Pedestrian Bridge petition has recently been started. You can go to:

www.PedBridge.com

Sample quotes from early Tulsa signers:

"It's a Tulsa icon, equal to Cains. As a runner, it has always been a welcome sight. Additionally, it is a fixture of the river parks trail system that has been enjoyed over multiple generations and is tied to the history of this city."

"This bridge has a lot of memories for many tulsans, I've yet to meet a person who wants it's demolished."

"Blend the old into the new."

The petition's goal is a reevaluation before premature demolition (and settling for a problematic successor).

[heironymouspasparagus]

I understand the disappointment and fondness of the old bridge, but don't want to see this become some grand conspiracy theory like everything else these days. If the experts say a bridge is unsafe, we should believe them. I do also agree that the bridge design needs to be revisted. We can call for a better bridge without assuming there's some conspiracy to deliver a poor design.

If the experts don't have a financial interest in the outcome, true.

Another opinion in that list of links up there, from an expert.

https://tulsaworld.com/opinion/letters/letter-to-the-editor-bridge-claims-disputed/article_5d6d7d74-1537-11eb-b5e9-ef5ce921d5a0.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

As much as I would like there to be shade on this bridge how many other pedestrian bridges have shade structures?  Genuine question.  I'm familiar with the one in Austin and it doesn't have any kind of shade, and their summers are longer and more brutal than ours.

Then they have failed in part on their bridge.   Doesn't mean we should fail, too....

[SXSW]

Then they have failed in part on their bridge.   Doesn't mean we should fail, too....

Providence also built a new pedestrian bridge...no shade (but looks really nice with the wood planks): https://www.archpaper.com/2020/11/the-providence-river-pedestrian-and-bicycle-bridge-continues-a-shipbuilding-tradition/?trk_msg=VUS83G1H07UKF8KI6H1IGIVL4G&trk_contact=TJ4P18D0QVRFFGLVQQOQVURVKS&trk_sid=F1BE2V9NA7NHMO0RII06OKUIS4&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=The+Providence+River+Pedestrian+and+Bicycle+Bridge+continues+a+shipbuilding+tradition&utm_campaign=Outdoor+Spaces%3a+The+Providence+River+Pedestrian+and+Bicycle+Bridge+repurposes+highway+infrastructure

Omaha also has a fairly new pedestrian suspension bridge...no shade https://www.visitomaha.com/bob/

Dublin OH (outside Columbus) has a new bridge...no shade https://www.forbes.com/sites/reginacole/2020/04/16/dublin-ohio-builds-a-pedestrian-bridge-between-old-and-new/?sh=7bf5f8192f75

The aforementioned Austin pedestrian bridge...no shade https://www.aiaaustin.org/firm_project/pfluger-pedestrian-bridge

[Oil Capital]

Providence also built a new pedestrian bridge...no shade (but looks really nice with the wood planks): https://www.archpaper.com/2020/11/the-providence-river-pedestrian-and-bicycle-bridge-continues-a-shipbuilding-tradition/?trk_msg=VUS83G1H07UKF8KI6H1IGIVL4G&trk_contact=TJ4P18D0QVRFFGLVQQOQVURVKS&trk_sid=F1BE2V9NA7NHMO0RII06OKUIS4&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=The+Providence+River+Pedestrian+and+Bicycle+Bridge+continues+a+shipbuilding+tradition&utm_campaign=Outdoor+Spaces%3a+The+Providence+River+Pedestrian+and+Bicycle+Bridge+repurposes+highway+infrastructure

Omaha also has a fairly new pedestrian suspension bridge...no shade https://www.visitomaha.com/bob/

Dublin OH (outside Columbus) has a new bridge...no shade https://www.forbes.com/sites/reginacole/2020/04/16/dublin-ohio-builds-a-pedestrian-bridge-between-old-and-new/?sh=7bf5f8192f75

The aforementioned Austin pedestrian bridge...no shade https://www.aiaaustin.org/firm_project/pfluger-pedestrian-bridge

The only one of those that has summer heat approaching that of Tulsa is Austin, and their bridge is about 1/2 as long as our planned bridge.  Plus, we have (had) a bridge with shade, which made it quite lovely to walk across and linger. Now we are going backwards and building a bridge that one will just have to endure (or avoid) during the hot summer months).

[Arkansas Rio Gator]

I made a call the other day. Had a lengthy conversation (I mostly listened) about the much discussed bridge report/safety/restoration issues...

After that call, I was sent a copy of the 2015 HNTB report and given additional notes on it.

Very pertinent info; you can read about what I learned and can now download the full report (to see for yourself) at www.pedbridge.com/blog/

Please consider signing the petition.

[Oil Capital]

I made a call the other day. Had a lengthy conversation (I mostly listened) about the much discussed bridge report/safety/restoration issues...

After that call, I was sent a copy of the 2015 HNTB report and given additional notes on it.

Very pertinent info; you can read about what I learned and can now download the full report (to see for yourself) at www.pedbridge.com/blog/

Please consider signing the petition.

Very interesting!  Thanks for that information and the link to the report.

[shavethewhales]

That answers a lot of questions! So the solution is to simply build new piers and move the bridge onto them. I had no idea that an actual engineering company had evaluated this option and assumed it would be too expensive.

Thanks for putting in that effort, I will try to rebroadcast this!

[Vision 2025]

When the piers were exposed during the 80's LWD construction they were found to be highly eroded.  It took awhile to obtain funding before I wrote the change order for the repairs to the dam contractor.  

[buffalodan]

Unless somebody is discussing this as a design-build, then I really don't trust any of the cost estimates. This is a pretty special area and it's not like we have tons of pricing to get an accurate number of what would be the most efficient way to do construction. I would also like to see the existing bridge or something similar, but I really don't trust any engineer saying that this will save 10%.

[Arkansas Rio Gator]

Have you looked at the HNTB report?

They have the cred:

https://www.hntb.com/bridges/

Look at the numbers in their report.

[Vision 2025]

Unless somebody is discussing this as a design-build, then I really don't trust any of the cost estimates. This is a pretty special area and it's not like we have tons of pricing to get an accurate number of what would be the most efficient way to do construction. I would also like to see the existing bridge or something similar, but I really don't trust any engineer saying that this will save 10%.

Unfortunately, by statute, Design-Build is not easily authorized on Public work in Oklahoma.

[Arkansas Rio Gator]

Unfortunately, by statute, Design-Build is not easily authorized on Public work in Oklahoma.

For something “not easily authorized,” there are legal solutions. That’s what good people/officials do to make a worthy project work when it’s the right thing to do.

One example involves my Grandfather, Colonel Vernon W. Pinkey, who was Tulsa District Engineer when the Arkansas-Verdigris River System was declared open for navigation in 1970.

Ann Patton (1970s Tulsa World reporter/author of “The Tulsa River”) told me, in a private email, that “he recommended special federal legislation that allowed the city of Tulsa to buy terribly flooded houses on Mingo Creek without disqualifying the city from the big Corps' Mingo project. It was a critical piece, and as far as I know, is unique. I can describe it in more technical detail if you are interested. It was really a creative and masterful idea, well executed. Probably almost nobody alive knows about it, so you have to be the keeper of that great contribution.”

Somebody can make this work from a legal standpoint.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Unfortunately, by statute, Design-Build is not easily authorized on Public work in Oklahoma.

It seems that design build can be used but it is heavily restricted.

From Title 61. Public Buildings and Public Works
§61-202.1. Design-build and at-risk construction management project delivery methods - Authorization required - Exemptions.

Section C

C. The design-build and construction management project delivery methods shall not be used for any project unless the project meets the criteria established by the administrative rules promulgated as required by this act. Such methods shall not be used unless there is a need for compressed construction time as required to respond to a natural disaster or other emergency situation affecting public health and safety, or all of the following criteria for designation are met:

1. The project benefits the public;

2. There is a need for cost control; and

3. The need exists for specialized or complex construction methods due to the unique nature of the project.

https://law.justia.com/codes/oklahoma/2016/title-61/section-61-202.1/

Design Build has been allowed in Arizona for ~30 years and works quite well. The city I used to work did this for multiple buildings including seven fire stations, a public works facility and some parks & rec projects.