Tulsa: Snob-central?

[Chicken Little]

I just wanted to get some feedback on something my wife has observed; she's not from 'round here.  She says that she keeps running into snooty, judgemental-types, some are professed "Christians" but many apparently secular folks, too.  She says that at times it can be fairly difficult to meet people, make friends, do business, etc., in our fair city.

I don't notice, but she's always right. I figure its one of or more of the following:

a) Because I grew up here, I don't see it. Like myopia, but with my hometown.  

b) Perhaps, like a little bird, I was born with some kind of Tulsa-snob magnatite in my bloodstream that allows me to home out of the way of snots.  

c) Maybe I just subconsciously work through it.
I work with all sorts of people, from very rich to very poor; I just don't ever pick up on this vibe.  

or, d) I'm a guy; guys don't care.

Does anybody else, besides Tulsatype [], think that Tulsa has a disproportionate number of stuck-ups?  Who are these snobs (generally)?  How do you deal with them?  Any advice?

[orion]

finally saw this posting..its awesome...hang out at cherry st or peoria or wannabees starting to discover downtown. I find it hilarous that south tulsa types are beginning to infill..they were snobbish before but this brings it to a new level..remember when tulsa was really a town of neighborhoods, corner stores etc..I guess the progess of all the interstates etc took care of all that...oh sweet progress.

[tim huntzinger]

I just wanted to get some feedback on something my wife has observed; she's not from 'round here.  She says that she keeps running into snooty, judgemental-types, some are professed "Christians" but many apparently secular folks, too.  She says that at times it can be fairly difficult to meet people, make friends, do business, etc., in our fair city.

I don't notice, but she's always right. I figure its one of or more of the following:

a) Because I grew up here, I don't see it. Like myopia, but with my hometown.  

b) Perhaps, like a little bird, I was born with some kind of Tulsa-snob magnatite in my bloodstream that allows me to home out of the way of snots.  

c) Maybe I just subconsciously work through it.
I work with all sorts of people, from very rich to very poor; I just don't ever pick up on this vibe.  

or, d) I'm a guy; guys don't care.

Does anybody else, besides Tulsatype [], think that Tulsa has a disproportionate number of stuck-ups?  Who are these snobs (generally)?  How do you deal with them?  Any advice?

You all should read more Mark Twain!  'Hat-tip' to Orion for resurrecting the topic. First of all, does your wife know you posted this and secondly is she referring to City Tulsans or County Tulsans?  Northerners, South Tulsans?  That is pretty vague stuff to work with . . . has something to do with isolation and self-esteem, and the crushing banality of everyday life in T-town . . . 

Now, Mr. Little, your supposed immunity from detecting the 'Tulsa vibe' is most likely a) & d):  cuz'n yer jes a good ol' boy!!!

[PonderInc]

Hmmm.  I find that different areas of town have different vibes.  (warning: the following "analysis" contains generalizations and stereotypes...but that's half the fun.)

I'm never comfortable in deep south Tulsa...perhaps because the plastic barbies all look alike, and they look askance at anyone who's different/not like them.

I tend to avoid Utica Square, even though it's our best "mall."  Too many corncobs up too many of the clientele's butts...  However, the best donuts in town come from Petty's, and the Utica Square post office has the best customer service in America.   I like the lentil salad at Wild Fork, and most of my friends love Stonehorse, Queenies, Flemings, etc.  So what are you going to do?

Brookside and Cherry Street have both become "gentrified" in recent years, with see-and-be-seen hipsters overtaking the charming hippies.  (Especially on Friday night.  Ugh.)  Still, these areas tend to be more welcoming of diversity than other places in town.

Downtown is still the bastion of sanity for those of us who like "comfortably cosmopolitan" places and folks.  Though, I have to admit, the hipsters are definitely overtaking places like McNellies on certain nights.  Thus, recent additions like Joe Mommas and the Hunt Club add interesting, easygoing destinations for the rest of us.

Despite the above criticisms, I love midtown and downtown.  And I think that Tulsa is the sort of town, where you can easily get involved and be welcomed by people if you are willing to join an organization and contribute.  TulsaNow, Sustainable Tulsa, Global Gardens, and a zillion others.  Just pick something you love and get involved, and you'll find lots of new friends in town.

[cannon_fodder]

Interesting comments.   I haven't really noticed Tulsans to be very judgmental in anything but religion (what church do you go to?) but even then if I mind my own business it usually isn't an issue.  But then again, I'm a TU Alum younger white male who generally dresses professionally - so maybe I'm being judged favorably (those fools!).

Honestly, I am very judgmental.  Let it be known that as soon as I see a person I judge them.  Based on how they look, what they wear, what they are driving, mannerisms, speaking patterns and vernacular, all sorts of things.   I'm not judging you to figure out if you have money or to "pass judgment" on you as far as being a good or bad person, rich or not, or anything else.  I just start gleaning information and when I do so I automatically file it under some imaginary categories.  Does that make any sense?   Maybe it isn't being judgmental, but I glean information and am usually internally critical.

I also criticize the hell out of people as part of conversation.  People wearing spurs to Target had better be doing something at Expo.  No one can drive but me.  People with $400 purses are probably idiots.  People with over-sized mufflers are incredibly stupid.   If you are wearing boxer shorts, mesh shorts, and jeans while making an attempt to ensure that everyone knows you are wearing that many layers of clothing, in August, when it's 100F . . . your a fool.  Preppy guys on Brookside are often trying to hard.  Women with giant breasts prominently on displayare "shopping hard" for a man (and God bless them).   I look at people and often make a snap judgment.

BUT, I pride myself on treating everyone the same in spite of that judgment and giving them a chance to prove my snap judgment wrong.   I think most people are judgmental.  Some take those to heart, some dismiss it right away, and most people are somewhere in the middle.

Same thing with me and nationality/origin.  I always try to figure out where someone/someone's ancestors are from.  Is that name Polish?  Vietnamese?  Is that accent East African?  It's not to judge them based on their or their families origin, just out of curiosity. 

But as a whole, no, I don't see Tulsans as being and more judgmental than anywhere else and do not recall thinking the same when I moved here.  Other than the Church thing.

[Conan71]

Honestly, I am very judgmental.  Let it be known that as soon as I see a person I judge them.  Based on how they look, what they wear, what they are driving, mannerisms, speaking patterns and vernacular, all sorts of things.   

I do that as well.  Everytime I see you I think: "Poor guy, suffers from masturbation guilt and he's got an IQ of 80"   

[Steve]

I wouldn't call Tulsa "snob central," but we might win the title for "slob central."  We certainly have more than our fair share of fat, obese persons who apparently care absolutely nothing about their appearance or proper dress in public.

[Townsend]

proper dress in public.

While I don't consider myself obese or a slob, I'm a shorts and flips guy for as long as the weather permits.  I have nothing against dressing well but I'm more comfort driven.  Sportcoat, tie, and wingtips in the middle of summer here is not a way for me to go.  Don't get me wrong though, I applaud your need for style over comfort.

[sgrizzle]

Everytime I see CF I wonder when he's going to start middle school.

[cannon_fodder]

Everytime I see CF I wonder when he's going to start middle school.

You have to look 11 to start middle school.

[Steve]

While I don't consider myself obese or a slob, I'm a shorts and flips guy for as long as the weather permits.  I have nothing against dressing well but I'm more comfort driven.  Sportcoat, tie, and wingtips in the middle of summer here is not a way for me to go.  Don't get me wrong though, I applaud your need for style over comfort.

Shorts and flips are just fine for some venues, every situation is different.  But when I go to a nice "upscale" restaurant for example, I don't want to see some guy come in wearing shorts, flips, a T shirt and a ball cap on his head.  (and the same goes for ladies too.)  I see this all too often.  If I were the proprietor, I would tell him his patronage is appreciated, but appropriate dress required.  I suppose it is not just a Tulsa thing, but a general slobification of our society in general.

[Red Arrow]

Steve,

Calling someone a slob because they prefer casual attire seems snobbish.

A slob is a clumsy, slovenly, or boorish person.  There are plenty of slobs around but casual attire does not make someone habitually negligent in their cleanliness, appearance or work habits.  Nor does it make them rude, unmannerly, illiterate, dull, or an insensitive peasant.  I have seen well dressed clumsy people.  (Yes, I have a dictionary.)

I prefer jeans, tee shirt (long sleeves in winter), and running shoes.  One step up is tucking my shirt in. My hair is longish for present men's styles. I do care about the way I look.  If I didn't, I would cut my hair short (easier to care for) and wear uppity styles to satisfy the fashion police. I am not obese or even considered fat. I show up to work clean and in clean clothes. Business casual is acceptable most times where I work.

You say shorts and flip are fine for some venues.  I expect I would find them acceptable for more venues than you.  Going to an "upscale" restaurant generally involves dressing up.  Many people enjoy that. By establishing a such a dress code, a proprietor is saying that he doesn't want the patronage of someone not "suitably attired", at least not then.  That's OK.  If you want to participate, you need to wear the uniform of the day/evening.

Clothing styles change with time and are different for other cultures.  What you consider proper dress in public would have been considered scandalous in other times or even now in other cultures, especially female attire.  It's difficult not to form a first impression based on someone's appearance.  I generally think people dressed up in an otherwise casual social setting are probably pompous or snooty.  You would probably consider me a slob.

Dressing up to go out probably evolved to allow regular folks to feel important for at least a little while. I have pictures in my mind of Hyacinth Bucket making Richard dress up to go on a picnic in the country, horseback riding, spending time on a "Yacht" on the river, and even gardening in the front yard. (Keeping Up Appearances, English comedy on PBS Sunday night.)  I read that coat and tie was expected at the early 20th century trolley amusement parks on weekends even for young boys in the summer.  Maybe that was the snobification of America.

I agree there are slobs around.  I disagree that a change in dress standards qualifies as an overall slobification.

[tim huntzinger]

Going to the store or out to eat dressed like one is doing laundry or cleaning house is waaaayyyy too common, but is that a T-towner thang?

So CL does your wife know you told the nice people here that she thinks she lives in a land of snobby hypocrites?

Tulsans are very congenial, IMHO, but then I do not run in them uppity circles that judge you based on what you drive or where you live or where you work.  Ha! And WE are the snobs!

[Steve]

Steve,

Calling someone a slob because they prefer casual attire seems snobbish.

Well then so be it.  You are a slob if you don't dress appropriately for the venue you are attending.  Your personal attire preferrences are no excuse.  And you have taken this subject way too seriously.  Get a life.

[Red Arrow]

Well then so be it.  You are a slob if you don't dress appropriately for the venue you are attending.  Your personal attire preferrences are no excuse.  And you have taken this subject way too seriously.  Get a life.

Did you miss the part where I said "If you want to participate, you need to wear the uniform of the day/evening."?  Uniform being Coat and tie if that's where you want to go.  I wasn't disagreeing about specific venues.

Your statement about "general slobification of our society in general" leads me to believe you take proper attire way too seriously.  Perhaps you need a life.