Amazon

[erfalf]

I was at a work function recently sitting at a dinner table with a few people, mostly from the Orlando/Daytona area and Philadelphia. I explained where I lived (Bartlesville). They were vaguely aware of Tulsa. It's just not on anybodies radar.

When describing the amenities that Bartlesville had (for a town as small as it is) they were a bit shocked that such culture existed in "Indian country" (I imagined the word "savage" was going through their head that very moment). And surprised to learn that Phillips Petroleum (which they were all aware of) had been headquartered there for decades.

Heck most people IN TULSA barely comprehend the significance of the collection at Gilcrease.  Maybe we should start there and educate our own citizens about how remarkable some of the aspects of Tulsa really are.

The Brady district in particular is slowly turning into one of the best urban neighborhoods (albeit nobody lives there yet) in the country. Yes, I meant to say the country.

[Dspike]

What negative national reputation? The only polling I've ever seen about people's view of Oklahoma is overwhelmingly positive (40% positive; 16% negative = +24). We were the 14th most popular state. The most unpopular states were (in order) California, Illinois, NJ, Mississippi, and Utah. For those states, more people had an "unfavorable" view than "favorable." The most popular are Hawaii, Colorado, TN, SD, VA.

I think far too many folks think we have a reputation that we do not.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/state-favorability-poll.html

Additionally, when the Chamber studied what people think about Tulsa, the result was "beige." See page 4 under "notable successes" in https://di26aiwl9i0hv.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/VT-Annual-Report-2012-13_Final-Web.pdf

Most people don't think about Tulsa or Oklahoma much. The few who have an opinion are mostly positive. There are many reasons Amazon will not likely put a HQ in Tulsa, but national reputation is not one of them.

[TulsaBeMore]

Totally agree w/ rebound's last post.  Been like this my entire life.  Part of it may be people seem to be more humble here and maybe self-deprecating?  But if you don't toot your own horn, nobody will.  Think of this, Tulsa does not have many tributes to famous/noteworthy Tulsans.  Other cities name things after their favorite sons.  If anything, it's about marketing the city to natives and the outside world - not so much to honor the person!.  Charlotte has Billy Graham Parkway.  Oklahoma City has co-opted famous Green Country names to use to its advantage.  Will Rogers World Airport, Mickey Mantle Blvd., etc.  We name streets after other cities.  Think there's a Tulsa street in Boston?  Tulsa Ave. in Cheyenne, Wyoming?  Paul Harvey is said to be the single most listened to voice in radio history (don't quote me on that), yet there is ZERO, ZIP to honor him anywhere.  You could unfurl a list of people.  Steve Largent is a bigger legend in Seattle than he is here and he lives here.  Garth Brooks was born here.  OKPOP may help with a little of this.

At some point, when we think we've got our stuff together, we should consider an ad campaign (at least on national cable news and/or financial networks targeting thought leaders) that shows a nameless cosmopolitan city, great nearby lakes --- all the great things around here --- then revealing to the viewer at the end that it's Tulsa and where to get more info.  Have Garth Brooks, Kristin Chenoweth, Jeanne Tripplehorn, Steve Largent - types voice them and show up at end to reveal it's Tulsa.  Just a thought.  Back in the day they did that train tour of big cities promoting Tulsa.  We need a salesman.    

[TulsaBeMore]

Another couple of things - do you think the majority of people commenting in this forum actually live in Tulsa?  I see some don't, but used to live here.

Also, another positive for Tulsa when it comes to Amazon.  Walmart is headquartered 100 miles from here.  Tulsa is the biggest nearby city.  The labor pool is similar in some regards. I think Walmart's digital offering is still based in Silicon Valley - not sure, but retail knowledge is a major part of the mix.  You could raid Walmart if you wanted.   

Brings up another thing.  I recall being upset Phillips moved to Houston with the Conoco merger.  I had the opportunity to talk with a Phillips PR guy.  He said you simply can't operate a world-class corporation from a small town like Bartlesville and that oil companies are all headquartered in Houston.  I pointed out Chevron (San Ramon, CA), ExxonMobil (Irving, TX), and Walmart in Bentonville --- the largest corporation in the world.  It's usually about where the execs and their wives want to live, isn't it? Phillips CEO Jim Mulva was a UT grad, Conoco CEO Archie Dunham (a native Oklahoman) was on the board of the opera or similar in Houston. A man about town.  Those guys got $15 million a piece just for doing that deal between themselves - "change in control" clause in their individual work contracts.  Now, Dunham has given money for a new dorm at OU and likely more.  The Mulvas have a foundation that gives money - probably some in Bartlesville, but I don't know.  Leaving the headquarters in Bartlesville would have been better than a dorm at OU.       

[heironymouspasparagus]

Totally agree w/ rebound's last post.  Been like this my entire life.  Part of it may be people seem to be more humble here and maybe self-deprecating?  But if you don't toot your own horn, nobody will.  Think of this, Tulsa does not have many tributes tofamous/noteworthy Tulsans.  Other cities name things after their favorite sons.  If anything, it's about marketing the city to natives and the outside world - not so much to honor the person!.  Charlotte has Billy Graham Parkway.  Oklahoma City has co-opted famous Green Country names to use to its advantage.  Will Rogers World Airport, Mickey Mantle Blvd., etc.  We name streets after other cities.  Think there's a Tulsa street in Boston?  Tulsa Ave. in Cheyenne, Wyoming?  Paul Harvey is said to be the single most listened to voice in radio history (don't quote me on that), yet there is ZERO, ZIP to honor him anywhere.  You could unfurl a list of people.  Steve Largent is a bigger legend in Seattle than he is here and he lives here.  Garth Brooks was born here.  OKPOP may help with a little of this.

At some point, when we think we've got our stuff together, we should consider an ad campaign (at least on national cable news and/or financial networks targeting thought leaders) that shows a nameless cosmopolitan city, great nearby lakes --- all the great things around here --- then revealing to the viewer at the end that it's Tulsa and where to get more info.  Have Garth Brooks, Kristin Chenoweth, Jeanne Tripplehorn, Steve Largent - types voice them and show up at end to reveal it's Tulsa.  Just a thought.  Back in the day they did that train tour of big cities promoting Tulsa.  We need a salesman.    

We have a stunning array of famous people from here.  BIG names in music, cinema, etc.  And virtually no recognition by the state or better yet, local groups.  Probably the one most visual recently has been Woody Guthrie, and in my mind, he is a giant in the music/poetry world.  Up there close to Dylan.  And most people here don't know anything about him.

Some others - and nowhere near an exhaustive list;

Jim Thorpe
Leon Russell
Anita Bryant (not my favorite, but there seems to be residual fan base)
Reba   (seriously, you need a last name...??)
James Garner
Clark Gable
Johnny Bench
Paul Harvey
Mickey Mantle
Chuck Norris
Ted Shackleford
And even though it makes me gag a little, and get some stomach acid in my mouth when I say it, Toby Keith.

Even a place like Memphis sells their celebrities better than we do with the Elvis mansion, but that is probably more a function of the family rather than the town.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What negative national reputation? The only polling I've ever seen about people's view of Oklahoma is overwhelmingly positive (40% positive; 16% negative = +24). We were the 14th most popular state. The most unpopular states were (in order) California, Illinois, NJ, Mississippi, and Utah. For those states, more people had an "unfavorable" view than "favorable." The most popular are Hawaii, Colorado, TN, SD, VA.

I think far too many folks think we have a reputation that we do not.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/state-favorability-poll.html

Additionally, when the Chamber studied what people think about Tulsa, the result was "beige." See page 4 under "notable successes" in https://di26aiwl9i0hv.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/VT-Annual-Report-2012-13_Final-Web.pdf

Most people don't think about Tulsa or Oklahoma much. The few who have an opinion are mostly positive. There are many reasons Amazon will not likely put a HQ in Tulsa, but national reputation is not one of them.

Just shows you how unreliable polling can be.  I have told the story about friends in New York who were afraid to come here due to Indian trouble possibilities.  I told them it was ok in big cities, but might get an occasional arrow in the car as you traveled the turnpike.  That was their reality before the story (and after) as well as dozens, if not hundreds I have talked to about OK over the years.  Talk to real people to see how they really feel.

The biggest reason most of them think about us now is when one of our stupid laws gets passed that is blatantly and obviously unconstitutional.  We look like 'hicks from the sticks', and our actions reinforce it to much of the outside world.

[swake]

Another couple of things - do you think the majority of people commenting in this forum actually live in Tulsa?  I see some don't, but used to live here.

Also, another positive for Tulsa when it comes to Amazon.  Walmart is headquartered 100 miles from here.  Tulsa is the biggest nearby city.  The labor pool is similar in some regards. I think Walmart's digital offering is still based in Silicon Valley - not sure, but retail knowledge is a major part of the mix.  You could raid Walmart if you wanted.   

Brings up another thing.  I recall being upset Phillips moved to Houston with the Conoco merger.  I had the opportunity to talk with a Phillips PR guy.  He said you simply can't operate a world-class corporation from a small town like Bartlesville and that oil companies are all headquartered in Houston.  I pointed out Chevron (San Ramon, CA), ExxonMobil (Irving, TX), and Walmart in Bentonville --- the largest corporation in the world.  It's usually about where the execs and their wives want to live, isn't it? Phillips CEO Jim Mulva was a UT grad, Conoco CEO Archie Dunham (a native Oklahoman) was on the board of the opera or similar in Houston. A man about town.  Those guys got $15 million a piece just for doing that deal between themselves - "change in control" clause in their individual work contracts.  Now, Dunham has given money for a new dorm at OU and likely more.  The Mulvas have a foundation that gives money - probably some in Bartlesville, but I don't know.  Leaving the headquarters in Bartlesville would have been better than a dorm at OU.       

Point well taken on Wal-Mart and with every possible American vendor with offices within a two hour drive that can be a plus. But San Ramon is part of a metro of 8.8 million people that is the center of the tech universe and Irving is is part of a metro with 7.7 million. They aren't small towns, they are suburbs of two world class cities.

My money again would be on this HQ going to Denver or Dallas. And by Dallas I mean most likely Plano, Allen or Frisco

[bluelake]

*raises hand*

I've got an idea!

Seattle's mayor, Ed Murray, just resigned effective today September 13 after a fifth accuser (his cousin) came forward with a claim of sexual abuse.  Since he's now looking for a job, why doesn't he come to Oklahoma, change his D to an R, take Shortey's place at the capital and help us to try and lure Amazon to Oklahoma?  Seems like his experience as mayor of Amazon Town would come in handy in getting Amazon to Oklahoma/Tulsa.

[TulsaBeMore]

swake - see what you mean. I was referring to the Phillips 66 guy saying all oil companies needed to be headquartered in Houston. The two biggest are not.  I realize they have the majority of their workers in Houston, but the C-Suite is not there.  Walmart - I was talking about being in a small town.  I could have worded it better.

Mr. Murray?  Wow. No thank you. Thank you, very much!

[Red Arrow]

Another couple of things - do you think the majority of people commenting in this forum actually live in Tulsa?  I see some don't, but used to live here.

I expect most live in the area.  I actually live in Bixby near 111th and Memorial.  I have walked to Lowe's, Reasor's and Walmart.

Edit:
But then I have also walked to the Bixby BBQ and Jazz festival a few times at almost 3 miles each way.  Several reasons for walking, I don't want to subject my car to the parking situation,  with traffic walking is almost as fast and I hate the idea of paying $10 for parking.

[Townsend]

I can find significant negatives in about every state you can mention.  New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc.     

Sure you can.  Me too.  But can you do a Ben Franklin close and match the positives?

Does Oklahoma have as many reasonable positives that would make the Amazon workers want to live here?

Could you imagine trying to head hunt someone who lives in NY, MA, or CT and say "Oklahoma...it has a musical."?

[TulsaBeMore]

I imagine if Amazon put its headquarters here, Amazon workers would want to live here if they wanted to be Amazon workers.

[rebound]

I imagine if Amazon put its headquarters here, Amazon workers would want to live here if they wanted to be Amazon workers.

Ever read "Tipping Point"?  It's all about how major changes occur along the margins, and are often due to seemingly very small day-to-day differences.

The fear from Amazon, and from any major employer, is that they will lose top talent on the margins if they don't locate in a desirable area/city.  So, they don't get their first choice for job XX because that person wouldn't want to move to a certain city, etc.   For any one single position that would not be a big deal, but across the board it can cause an overall diminishment of the class of worker they get. 

At least that's the theory/fear.   Debate at will whether it has merit.

 

[TulsaBeMore]

Ever read "Tipping Point"?  It's all about how major changes occur along the margins, and are often due to seemingly very small day-to-day differences.

The fear from Amazon, and from any major employer, is that they will lose top talent on the margins if they don't locate in a desirable area/city.  So, they don't get their first choice for job XX because that person wouldn't want to move to a certain city, etc.   For any one single position that would not be a big deal, but across the board it can cause an overall diminishment of the class of worker they get.  

At least that's the theory/fear.   Debate at will whether it has merit.

 

Sure it has merit. Probably something to not being able to recruit here as opposed to San Jose, CA.  But, I'll mention Walmart again.  I've never heard of them having trouble attracting quality people for their jobs in NW Arkansas because that's where Walmart is.    

As I recall, the vast majority of Dollar-Thrifty employees offered jobs with Hertz in Florida refused to go.  So if you get people here they tend to like it.  If you're into family lifestyle, etc.  Jet-setting senior executive climber-types, maybe not.   Garmin opened a place here because it couldn't get a handful of former Lowrance creative-types to move to Kansas City.  I think this place is competitively desirable --- you have to sell it as such.

[Red Arrow]

As I recall, the vast majority of Dollar-Thrifty employees offered jobs with Hertz in Florida refused to go.  So if you get people here they tend to like it.  

Dad investigated a few job opportunities before accepting a transfer to here in 1971.  It's been mostly OK.  Mom and dad didn't retire to FL as they originally planned because by then we all had enough connections here to stay here.  I came back to Tulsa/Bixby after getting out of the Navy as an inexpensive place to stay while going back to school at TU.  Then I had enough connections to stay.

It can be tough to leave the Tulsa area since the cost of living and wages are generally lower than the "more desirable" places to go, school teachers excepted.  Moving to a higher cost area takes a lot of desire to leave.