UCAT v. TDA, land development north of 244

[carltonplace]

Kevin Stitt is from Tulsa and made the Republican runoff for Governor.   

Yea, but he scares the ever living Trump out of me.

[SXSW]

A good comparison and role model for OSU should be the University of Nebraska system.  They have the main campus in Lincoln but have the urban campus in Omaha with 15k+ students as well as the medical school and health sciences center. 

[cannon_fodder]

A good comparison and role model for OSU should be the University of Nebraska system.  They have the main campus in Lincoln but have the urban campus in Omaha with 15k+ students...

And their campus in Omaha is ~ 92 acres:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Nebraska+Omaha/@41.2587935,-96.0126068,855m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x4dbea6a55857784f!8m2!3d41.2582497!4d-96.0107049

I believe OSU Tulsa lays claim to 200 acres north of 244.
https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/the-university-center-at-tulsa-was-created-30-years-ago/

So it would be appropriately sized for 25,000+ students.  If there is a plan for that, I'm all for it. Publish the plan, put in action, use the land. If you're going to have 15k students, then it seems 100 acres works well enough for UN of Omaha. Sell/lease/develop the other 100 acres to fund your expansion and lets go!

[SXSW]

Lots of changes potentially coming for Greenwood/Brady Heights.  Glad they finally realized OSU doesn't need 200 acres and can grow on its existing footprint by infilling parking lots.  I personally would love to see more brownstones like the ones by Centennial Park in the area west of MLK mixed in with single family homes that match the character of Brady Heights (front porches, alley garages, etc).

More than three decades later, OSU-Tulsa is charged by law with providing a comprehensive public university for Tulsa and the surrounding area. Only OSU and Langston are on the campus today.

Peters said the city and TDA will engage in a "very comprehensive development process to ensure that we're listening to the citizens of that area." He added that changes in higher education and redevelopment downtown and in the former Brady District (now known as the Tulsa Arts District) gave the urban renewal discussions more meaning.

"Maybe if downtown and Brady had not developed like it has, we wouldn't even need to be talking about this," Peters said in an interview after the vote. "But here we are right across the highway from the new OK Pops, from Cain's Ballroom, just all of the positive things that have taken place.

"It's really an unusual opportunity for the city to offer up to developers a substantial portion of the land that has great access. We hope that we're able to find developers and lay out some comprehensive plan that helps downtown, helps the Brady and especially helps north Tulsa development. That's the big goal we have here."

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/tda-and-ucat-authority-reach-mediation-agreement-in-land-dispute/article_c58cc35f-7944-559c-a60c-6e9e7b11571f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

[Hoss]

Lots of changes potentially coming for Greenwood/Brady Heights.  Glad they finally realized OSU doesn't need 200 acres and can grow on its existing footprint by infilling parking lots.  I personally would love to see more brownstones like the ones by Centennial Park in the area west of MLK mixed in with single family homes that match the character of Brady Heights (front porches, alley garages, etc).



https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/tda-and-ucat-authority-reach-mediation-agreement-in-land-dispute/article_c58cc35f-7944-559c-a60c-6e9e7b11571f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

Agreed.  I have a good friend who lives in an older brownstone type apartment smack in the middle of Brady Heights.  I love that neighborhood and if there were a way I could move to it I would but currently live in a house in Clarland Acres that's paid for.  Brady Heights has character and the single family dwellings there with deep front porches are awesome.

[SXSW]

Virginia Tech is opening a new tech and engineering-focused campus near the new Amazon HQ in Arlington.  This will be a urban campus as a counter-part to the flagship Blacksburg campus in SW Virginia.  This would be a good case study for OSU, a fellow land-grant institution, in how to approach their urban campus in Tulsa.

Tech's Blacksburg campus will also see growth from the announcement, Sands said.

The university plans to add 2,000 undergraduate students who will work in software engineering and computer science to add to a pipeline from Tech to Amazon. The company is already a top 10 recruiter of Virginia Tech students, said Julia Ross, the College of Engineering dean.

Sound familiar? 

Tech already has a robust presence in the region with seven locations and about 160 faculty. The school also draws many of its students from the area and estimates it has 60,000 alumni in Northern Virginia.

Even a fraction of this would be transformative for downtown

The campus will feature the following:

300,000 square feet of academic space and cutting-edge R&D facilities.
250,000 square feet of partner space dedicated to startups and corporate facilities.
350,000 square feet of housing space for students and faculty.
100,000 square feet of retail and support spaces.

https://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/virginia-tech-to-open-billion-campus-in-northern-virginia-next/article_dc52bdeb-2efd-599b-9a54-09ce7a4ba8ea.html

[SXSW]

Interesting to hear OSU President Burns Hargis now openly talking about expanding OSU-Tulsa.  This echoes similar comments from President Gallogly at OU.  Hope this is the start of eventual expansion at both universities.  I still think there is the whole TCC and Langston issue that has to be resolved. 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/osu-s-hargis-says-splintered-higher-education-structure-in-tulsa/article_c1e11865-68de-54dc-b764-757621c97d4e.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

Interesting to hear OSU President Burns Hargis now openly talking about expanding OSU-Tulsa.  This echoes similar comments from President Gallogly at OU.  Hope this is the start of eventual expansion at both universities.  I still think there is the whole TCC and Langston issue that has to be resolved. 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/osu-s-hargis-says-splintered-higher-education-structure-in-tulsa/article_c1e11865-68de-54dc-b764-757621c97d4e.html

Hope so!


But, gee...I wonder where I heard that, and how many times, over the last 49 years...since TJC/TCC opened....

[SXSW]

Hope so!


But, gee...I wonder where I heard that, and how many times, over the last 49 years...since TJC/TCC opened....

Exactly, for this to move forward you'll need GT Bynum's support as well as the council and elected state reps from Tulsa.  I love the idea of a tech, engineering and research-focused OSU downtown (like the VT example I posted a few months ago), a health sciences-focused OU in Midtown and TCC filling in the gaps with undergraduate studies.  TU will continue to be Tulsa's premier university and is absolutely critical that it stays a top school and grows into a larger more influential institution.  And as much as we might deride ORU it has ~4,000 students, including many international students, and 900 employees making it one of the larger employers in south Tulsa.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Exactly, for this to move forward you'll need GT Bynum's support as well as the council and elected state reps from Tulsa.  I love the idea of a tech, engineering and research-focused OSU downtown (like the VT example I posted a few months ago), a health sciences-focused OU in Midtown and TCC filling in the gaps with undergraduate studies.  TU will continue to be Tulsa's premier university and is absolutely critical that it stays a top school and grows into a larger more influential institution.  And as much as we might deride ORU it has ~4,000 students, including many international students, and 900 employees making it one of the larger employers in south Tulsa.

TU will remain the city's (and state's) premier university, but the vast majority of its students are from other states and countries. Way back in the day, the majority were from Tulsa or at least Oklahoma, but with the way they started going for more strict academic standards, the radius of applicants naturally expanded. It seems like most are from Missouri or Texas. Great to have a good university, but most TU alumni end up moving out of state (Probably the same for OU, but not as large of a proportion).

A public university in Tulsa would likely be a bit boost for bachelor attainment rates because, initially, it would be far more Tulsans/Oklahomans going, especially those who don't have the means or desire to move to the sticks for college. Over time, as certain programs thrive, the applicants would come from much farther out. That is another benefit is bringing in outside minds who can contribute and maybe stick around. Austin Texas would not be what it was if the main UT campus would've been put in another city or even suburb as is the case for Norman/OKC. Having the campus right by downtown brings in so much to that area and students often want to stay there when they graduate. Tulsa has a pretty cool scene already. Given a full 4-year university and it could really boost the urban areas.

[DowntownDan]

It almost seems too late since NSU and Langston already built new campuses. If they had struck before then OU and OSU could have combined for an IUPUI type relationship discussed in the article. But any relationship that would undermine what appear to be extensive investments by LU and NSU would likely not work. If it weren't cost prohibitive, I wish OSU could fund a high speed rail between the Stillwater and Tulsa campuses and make them a single 50,000+ student university with a 20-30 minute train ride between campuses and living options in downtown Tulsa for those who are so inclined. I know they have the Big Orange Bus but with a travel time of an hour or more is just too long for any real feeling of connectivity. High speed that could cut that in half or less would be the only way to really make them a single campus, especially since the ideal would be campus to campus with no need for cars on the other end.

[SXSW]

It almost seems too late since NSU and Langston already built new campuses. If they had struck before then OU and OSU could have combined for an IUPUI type relationship discussed in the article. But any relationship that would undermine what appear to be extensive investments by LU and NSU would likely not work. If it weren't cost prohibitive, I wish OSU could fund a high speed rail between the Stillwater and Tulsa campuses and make them a single 50,000+ student university with a 20-30 minute train ride between campuses and living options in downtown Tulsa for those who are so inclined. I know they have the Big Orange Bus but with a travel time of an hour or more is just too long for any real feeling of connectivity. High speed that could cut that in half or less would be the only way to really make them a single campus, especially since the ideal would be campus to campus with no need for cars on the other end.

I think you need to reshuffle the deck and take Langston, NSU and TCC out of it so OSU and OU can do what they want on their respective campuses. 

[rebound]

It almost seems too late since NSU and Langston already built new campuses. If they had struck before then OU and OSU could have combined for an IUPUI type relationship discussed in the article. But any relationship that would undermine what appear to be extensive investments by LU and NSU would likely not work. If it weren't cost prohibitive, I wish OSU could fund a high speed rail between the Stillwater and Tulsa campuses and make them a single 50,000+ student university with a 20-30 minute train ride between campuses and living options in downtown Tulsa for those who are so inclined. I know they have the Big Orange Bus but with a travel time of an hour or more is just too long for any real feeling of connectivity. High speed that could cut that in half or less would be the only way to really make them a single campus, especially since the ideal would be campus to campus with no need for cars on the other end.

I think you are over-thinking the impact of NSU and Langston.   Also, while cool, a high-speed rail is way overkill for that ride.   The ride on the bus is perfect for some reading or finishing some homework, etc.  Maybe add one additional bus, and be sure there is high speed internet available on the buses, and they are good to go from an infrastructure position.  Still need to address cost.  Current bus pricing is too high for daily student commuting.  Add the Tulsa housing (to get the campus-to-campus feel you mention), and lower the bus prices, and also open up the degree programs available for Tulsa-based students, and it would be a huge success. 

[DowntownDan]

Is there any way for OSU (or OU or both) to absorb TCC, award associate degrees, while ensuring that all (or most) credits are applied towards a bachelors degree if a student so chooses? Maybe TCC as a junior college could be the IUPUI in this scenario with much clearer bachelor paths at OU and OSU Tulsa campuses. It seems that TCC is always raised as a roadblock to a full 4-year public university in Tulsa. Just spitballing here, seems like we always end up in the same place with this discussion.

[SXSW]

Is there any way for OSU (or OU or both) to absorb TCC, award associate degrees, while ensuring that all (or most) credits are applied towards a bachelors degree if a student so chooses? Maybe TCC as a junior college could be the IUPUI in this scenario with much clearer bachelor paths at OU and OSU Tulsa campuses. It seems that TCC is always raised as a roadblock to a full 4-year public university in Tulsa. Just spitballing here, seems like we always end up in the same place with this discussion.

Honestly this shouldn't be that hard, plenty of cities have a community college system and a public satellite of the state university that co-exist.  I mentioned Omaha because it is a similarly sized city and one of our peer cities.  They have Metropolitan Community College which like TCC awards associates degrees and has multiple campuses.  They also have a University of Nebraska-Omaha (similar to our OSU or OU-Tulsa) but is its own independent university that also functions as the urban satellite campus for the flagship university in Lincoln (about the distance from Omaha as Stillwater is to Tulsa).  Except that UNO has 15k students in a variety of undergrad and graduate programs, some of which are exclusive to the Omaha campus and others offered at both campuses.  Why can Nebraska figure this out and we can't?