Jenks Outlet Mall starting?

[Rattle Trap]

Looks like its confirmed moving forward. https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/spring-is-projected-opening-for-outlet-mall-in-jenks-developer/article_9f1206bb-dceb-52dc-8df3-46c207690287.html

[Conan71]

That's pretty interesting that Simon is now starting to buy into retailers like Aerospatiale.  I guess that's one way to ensure you have them in your malls.

[shavethewhales]

Update: https://www.newson6.com/story/41391286/details-plans-coming-together-for-tulsa-premium-outlets-in-jenks

At least it sounds like they are creeping forward on this. I assume this will fly through the approval process at this point. Just need to start moving some actual dirt so we can stop moving the date back indefinitely.

[swake]

Update: https://www.newson6.com/story/41391286/details-plans-coming-together-for-tulsa-premium-outlets-in-jenks

At least it sounds like they are creeping forward on this. I assume this will fly through the approval process at this point. Just need to start moving some actual dirt so we can stop moving the date back indefinitely.

They already are moving dirt, have been for several weeks.

[shavethewhales]

^I mean, sort of. Unless I missed something, they've just had some sub contractors out there getting utility hook ups ready and moving some gas lines around. I want to see a primary show up and really start grading the land before I get excited.

[swake]

^I mean, sort of. Unless I missed something, they've just had some sub contractors out there getting utility hook ups ready and moving some gas lines around. I want to see a primary show up and really start grading the land before I get excited.

Utility relocation is ongoing now. General construction starts next month.

[ComeOnBenjals]

Jenks City Council approves final plat for Tulsa Premium Outlets

An upscale outlet mall being developed by the biggest mall builder in the country is inching closer to reality.

On Monday night, the Jenks City Council unanimously approved a request by River District Development LLC to OK a preliminary/final plat of Simon Property Group-affilitated Tulsa Premium Outlets, which anticipates opening in the spring of 2021 at East 101th Place South and South Seventh Street.

The current conditional plat is the full and final plat that meets the requirements of the Jenks zoning codes and subdivision regulations. It dedicates all necessary right-of-way, utility and drainage easements and documents the final covenants and planned unit development (PUD) requirements.

"At the heart of Simon's strategy is connecting with communities where we can raise the bar for a new shopping experience, and we are proud to confirm we've found that opportunity in the Tulsa market," Simon Premium Outlets CEO Stephen Yalof said in a statement in August. "Tulsa Premium Outlets will be a regional destination that offers strong value, fantastic fashion and an unparalleled experience for our guests. We are working towards a spring 2021 opening and look forward to sharing the center's progress as it unfolds."


https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/jenks-city-council-approves-final-plat-for-tulsa-premium-outlets/article_6642cde4-9f24-5478-9fc9-269266c6ce88.html

[shavethewhales]

Drove by this morning and there's some legit dirtwork and a construction office being setup. Glad to see this is finally getting off the ground after all these years.

Perhaps even more exciting than the outlet mall itself is the opportunities it will bring to the surrounding area. We already have the riverwalk and Aquarium, but this will open up a big new area and bring in more people. Sure wish they had planned everything with a little more cohesiveness, but at least there's the river trail I guess. There's definitely some more land available to do some great things with.

[brettakins]

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/tulsa-premium-outlets-construction-kickoff-set-for-today-in-jenks/article_a5d16949-712c-599a-a9f2-2e6e7c72b03f.html#1

A representative from the largest mall operator in the United States will detail plans about the proposed Tulsa Premium Outlets in Jenks.

A construction kickoff event is scheduled for 10 a.m. Thursday at the site, 801 E. 103rd St. South.

A retail platform of Indianapolis-based Simon Property Group, Simon Premium Outlets plans to build a 340,000-square foot mall that is scheduled to open in spring 2021. The open-air outlet center will feature designer and name-brand retailers.

[rebound]

I'm not really against this, but I cannot fathom how there is still ROI in constructing new outlet malls.   

[DTowner]

I'm not really against this, but I cannot fathom how there is still ROI in constructing new outlet malls.   

I am pretty neutral to the idea of an outlet mall generally, but this will cause a further drain to Tulsa's sales tax base.

[Conan71]

I'm not really against this, but I cannot fathom how there is still ROI in constructing new outlet malls.   

Almost has to be the odd formulas massive developers can work with on depreciation as well as all the development concessions and property tax abatements thrown at them by municipalities.  This was the premise I approached the Tulsa City Council on back when this was threatened for Turkey Mountain.  I pointed out that the TIF they were asking for on top of eventual property tax abatements would really gain the city no net sales tax revenue benefit at least not for 20 years.  There was enough scavenge rate (conservative estimates were 50%) from other local retailers to be concerned.  With so many people shopping on line even five years ago I honestly questioned how much of a destination outlet malls are these days.  They really don't offer anything unique other than a place to kill time.  At least speaking for myself, I'm never that bored these days.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Almost has to be the odd formulas massive developers can work with on depreciation as well as all the development concessions and property tax abatements thrown at them by municipalities.  This was the premise I approached the Tulsa City Council on back when this was threatened for Turkey Mountain.  I pointed out that the TIF they were asking for on top of eventual property tax abatements would really gain the city no net sales tax revenue benefit at least not for 20 years.  There was enough scavenge rate (conservative estimates were 50%) from other local retailers to be concerned.  With so many people shopping on line even five years ago I honestly questioned how much of a destination outlet malls are these days.  They really don't offer anything unique other than a place to kill time.  At least speaking for myself, I'm never that bored these days.

People still prefer to shop in person for most things (~90% retail is still in-person), especially clothes, but online shopping will eventually eat into that substantially. You're right that it's probably not worth tax abatements and it'll just poach other business. So this will just eat away at the pie that Tulsa Hills gets.

People think outlet malls are something worth going to so they'll probably do it. There's enough of those type of people in the Tulsa area to make it work for a while. I won't be surprised if it goes through a quick life-death cycle as online really starts to eat up the retail market though.

[TheArtist]

People still prefer to shop in person for most things (~90% retail is still in-person), especially clothes, but online shopping will eventually eat into that substantially. You're right that it's probably not worth tax abatements and it'll just poach other business. So this will just eat away at the pie that Tulsa Hills gets.

People think outlet malls are something worth going to so they'll probably do it. There's enough of those type of people in the Tulsa area to make it work for a while. I won't be surprised if it goes through a quick life-death cycle as online really starts to eat up the retail market though.

Actually, was trying to figure out what they meant by "retail" sales (does that include groceries, cars, restaurants, etc.?)  But did see this as one from CBRE for example (older numbers from 2017)


"However, e-commerce share varies depending on what retail categories are included or excluded in the retail sales figure. For example, if restaurant sales are included in overall retail sales, the 2017 e-commerce share drops slightly to 7.9%. On the other hand, if we isolate GAFO sales (generally considered typical mall category sales), that figure jumps to 26.2%. GAFO includes sales of furniture & home furnishings, electronics & appliances, clothing & accessories, sporting goods, hobby, book & music stores, general merchandise and office supplies, stationery & gift stores."

And some more recent numbers... (again not sure what's included in these #s)

"E commerce penetration hit 18.0% in the fourth quarter of 2019, marking online's highest ever recorded share of total retail sales. That compared with 16.1% for the same period during the prior year. Growth in digital sales also accounted for nearly two-thirds—65.2%—of all retail gains in Q4, up from 52.2% a year earlier."

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Actually, was trying to figure out what they meant by "retail" sales (does that include groceries, cars, restaurants, etc.?)  But did see this as one from CBRE for example (older numbers from 2017)


"However, e-commerce share varies depending on what retail categories are included or excluded in the retail sales figure. For example, if restaurant sales are included in overall retail sales, the 2017 e-commerce share drops slightly to 7.9%. On the other hand, if we isolate GAFO sales (generally considered typical mall category sales), that figure jumps to 26.2%. GAFO includes sales of furniture & home furnishings, electronics & appliances, clothing & accessories, sporting goods, hobby, book & music stores, general merchandise and office supplies, stationery & gift stores."

And some more recent numbers... (again not sure what's included in these #s)

"E commerce penetration hit 18.0% in the fourth quarter of 2019, marking online's highest ever recorded share of total retail sales. That compared with 16.1% for the same period during the prior year. Growth in digital sales also accounted for nearly two-thirds—65.2%—of all retail gains in Q4, up from 52.2% a year earlier."

I was going by these numbers from the most "official" source I could find which say online sales averaged 10% last year:

https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.pdf

But I don't doubt that those numbers aren't telling the whole story. There's so much complexity when you consider whether or not online commercial purchases are considered, which industries are "retail" and which should be excluded. e.g. a tire company might still buy all of it's stock direct or maybe it buys it online, but then customers buy in-store. Or customers order online to go buy in store. Tires are pretty traditional retail item that most customers prefer to buy at a place, but it has also merged with online commerce. You could have 3 different online sales for one actual retail sale and it is probably pretty tough to tell which are which.

Or what about businesses like a construction company. They might order their supplies online to pickup at a local retailer. Is it really "online" if they're just paying the local retailer and only picking the items online? Is that really retail if it's used commercial? Commercial sales will likely dwarf many consumer-based retail markets.


The other thing is Tulsa area residents might be less inclined to use online sales. Maybe Simon has data showing that Tulsans will probably continue to use in-store retail, perhaps longer than other places where online may be more popular. In general, Oklahomans seem a bit slower to hop on technology trends like online ordering, but a "decline" isn't the concern, it's a mass extinction event that could be coming for retail everywhere in the US as online sales skyrocket over the coming decades.

I hate that it's being built, and it's being done even as we collectively sigh and shake our heads and wonder what they're thinking. What a waste and yet another sales tax dispersal outlet. Bad for Tulsa in general, good for Jenks/Simon short term, and bad for the environment.