Discovery Lab

[swake]

I and hundreds of thousands of others drove by it and the expansive yard every work day.  Me for 30 years.  It was the encyclopedia definition of "stately." As much a Tulsa landmark as the Welcome to Las Vegas sign in Vegas or the field of wind turbines near Palm Springs.  Kaiser could do as he wished with it - he owned it.  I was always good with that.  But understand what you're talking about without the uninformed projection.  That's all I ask.

It was a copy of a house that was part of the defense of slavery. It wasn't historic, it was a copy. There are many examples of copies of that house around the country, in fact I lived in such a copy in Florida as a kid. Nothing special about the the copy on Riverside at all.

[TulsaBeMore]

It was a copy of a house that was part of the defense of slavery. It wasn't historic, it was a copy. There are many examples of copies of that house around the country, in fact I lived in such a copy in Florida as a kid. Nothing special about the the copy on Riverside at all.

This is ridiculous. Do not conflate historic with landmark. Who said it was historic.  I don't care that it's not there now or then. 99% of people upset at the time were not operating on the rationale that it was "part of the defense of slavery" and they thought it should stay for that reason.  It never entered their minds.  Dear Lord, it was a huge one-of-a-kind lawn and home they saw every day for decades. That's it. It was a landmark on the Riverside Drive.  A Confederate link-reason for demolition was kept from the public. It could have been the stated reason that it was too big to move.  Who knows. They did tear it down unannounced early one weekend morning.

[tulsabug]

This is ridiculous. Do not conflate historic with landmark. Who said it was historic.  I don't care that it's not there now or then. 99% of people upset at the time were not operating on the rationale that it was "part of the defense of slavery" and they thought it should stay for that reason.  It never entered their minds.  Dear Lord, it was a huge one-of-a-kind lawn and home they saw every day for decades. That's it. It was a landmark on the Riverside Drive.  A Confederate link-reason for demolition was kept from the public. It could have been the stated reason that it was too big to move.  Who knows. They did tear it down unannounced early one weekend morning.

The Eagle's Nest is a landmark too but I'd tear that f*cker down with my bare hands if there was a copy of it here in Tulsa.

The Blair Mansion was a crap copy of a crap house built by a rich a**hole who was either really racist or really obtuse. Why would someone build a copy of that turd when you have that incredible land and a bottomless bank account? Intended or not, that house existed as a normalization and glorification of the Confederacy made even worse by it sort of hiding it's origin. Just like all the Confederate statues, they exist as silent propaganda. Make it look like how noble these generals and soldiers were with their elegant and grand mansions and plantations, all the while hiding who these people were, what they stood for, and what those pathetic traitors tried to do to our country. The Blair Mansion served to silently glorify the antebellum south and it did it in a big way - by being somewhere that everyone drove by and got to see daily for decades so they would all say "oh what a great mansion" and "what a wonderful Tulsa landmark" even after knowing it's history. Piss on the Confederacy, piss on Jefferson Davis, and piss on that crap copy of his retirement home.

[Jeff P]

The Eagle's Nest is a landmark too but I'd tear that f*cker down with my bare hands if there was a copy of it here in Tulsa.

The Blair Mansion was a crap copy of a crap house built by a rich a**hole who was either really racist or really obtuse. Why would someone build a copy of that turd when you have that incredible land and a bottomless bank account? Intended or not, that house existed as a normalization and glorification of the Confederacy made even worse by it sort of hiding it's origin. Just like all the Confederate statues, they exist as silent propaganda. Make it look like how noble these generals and soldiers were with their elegant and grand mansions and plantations, all the while hiding who these people were, what they stood for, and what those pathetic traitors tried to do to our country. The Blair Mansion served to silently glorify the antebellum south and it did it in a big way - by being somewhere that everyone drove by and got to see daily for decades so they would all say "oh what a great mansion" and "what a wonderful Tulsa landmark" even after knowing it's history. Piss on the Confederacy, piss on Jefferson Davis, and piss on that crap copy of his retirement home.

This x1000

I've never understood the need to erect statues, monuments, etc., to memorialize seditious traitors who literally took up arms against the country. 

[TulsaBeMore]

The Eagle's Nest is a landmark too but I'd tear that f*cker down with my bare hands if there was a copy of it here in Tulsa.

The Blair Mansion was a crap copy of a crap house built by a rich a**hole who was either really racist or really obtuse. Why would someone build a copy of that turd when you have that incredible land and a bottomless bank account? Intended or not, that house existed as a normalization and glorification of the Confederacy made even worse by it sort of hiding it's origin. Just like all the Confederate statues, they exist as silent propaganda. Make it look like how noble these generals and soldiers were with their elegant and grand mansions and plantations, all the while hiding who these people were, what they stood for, and what those pathetic traitors tried to do to our country. The Blair Mansion served to silently glorify the antebellum south and it did it in a big way - by being somewhere that everyone drove by and got to see daily for decades so they would all say "oh what a great mansion" and "what a wonderful Tulsa landmark" even after knowing it's history. Piss on the Confederacy, piss on Jefferson Davis, and piss on that crap copy of his retirement home.

Please follow linear logic from what I originally wrote. Why were so may people upset at the time is what I was commenting on. None of the confederacy angles came up when the house was demolished. As far as I know. Check the social media time machine.  My only point is people were used to seeing it as they drove Riverside. PERIOD. I don't think the vast majority had any idea what it might have stood for.  Did you hear any talk of that when it was torn down?   The a**hole you speak of built the house 50 or 60 years ago, I think.  The social justice perspective was not as strong as it is now... it wasn't 6-7 years ago either.  Glad you're venting --- sort of answering a question no one asked.  At the risk of making this Twitter, I'm done. 

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Please follow linear logic from what I originally wrote. Why were so may people upset at the time is what I was commenting on. None of the confederacy angles came up when the house was demolished. As far as I know. Check the social media time machine.  My only point is people were used to seeing it as they drove Riverside. PERIOD. I don't think the vast majority had any idea what it might have stood for.  Did you hear any talk of that when it was torn down?   The a**hole you speak of built the house 50 or 60 years ago, I think.  The social justice perspective was not as strong as it is now... it wasn't 6-7 years ago either.  Glad you're venting --- sort of answering a question no one asked.  At the risk of making this Twitter, I'm done.  

Most people knew that it was representative of a plantation style home of the South. And we knew about slavery and the struggle for civil and voting rights into the 60's.



We just didn't go into a foaming of the mouth rage and tirade.

When it was demolished, it was like watching Bell's be torn down. When they started the 4th of July fireworks along the river in 1976, the lawn at the mansion was where everybody gathered to watch. IIRC the first fireworks show was done from the top of the Midland Valley/Pedestrian Bridge. It was where everybody went to see the finish line of KRMG's Great Raft Race.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

A note on the Blair Mansion, it was designed by John Duncan Forsyth and built in 1952.

https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry?entry=FO060

Forsyth also designed these notable buildings

Webster High School



The EW Marland Mansion in Ponca City



Southern Hills Country Club

B. B. Blair, a native of Davenport, Iowa, was the son of a Mississippi riverboat captain. He came west at the end of World War I and initially worked in the land department of independent oilman Waite Phillips (for whom TU's Phillips Hall is named). He eventually started his own oil company and became very successful.

Mr. Blair considered The University of Tulsa to be a great institution and demonstrated his faith in TU by financially supporting many facets of its operations, including athletics, academic programs, scholarships and the TU Annual Fund.

He had a penchant for simplicity and order and an appreciation for beauty that was shared by his wife, Penelope. Mr. Blair became involved in campus beautification, especially plans to redesign the "U," saying that the appearance of the campus entrance should reflect and complement the University's academic reputation. A modest man who avoided publicity, he had to be persuaded to allow the campus to honor him by naming the "U" Blair Drive.

Penelope "Penny" Mills Blair was born in Jacksonville, Florida, and graduated from Florida A&M in 1929. She later moved to Tulsa, where she married B. B. Blair in 1936. She was a life-long member of the Tulsa Garden Club and charter member of the Philbrook Museum of Art.

Mr. Blair died in 1980 at the age of 85, and Mrs. Blair died in 1995 at the age of 88. His namesake foundation established the B. B. Blair Petroleum Engineering Scholarship in 1981 in tribute to Mr. Blair and his ties to the oil industry and The University of Tulsa.

https://chapman.utulsa.edu/donor/the-blair-foundation/

[TulsaBeMore]

A note on the Blair Mansion, it was designed by John Duncan Forsyth and built in 1952.

https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry?entry=FO060

Forsyth also designed these notable buildings

Webster High School



The EW Marland Mansion in Ponca City



Southern Hills Country Club




https://chapman.utulsa.edu/donor/the-blair-foundation/

Forsyth knew what he was doing.  How can we permit anything else he designed to stand.  Tear it all down - just to be safe... and correct.     Thanks for posting these photos.  Did Forsyth also have a hand in Will Rogers High School?     

[tulsabug]

Please follow linear logic from what I originally wrote. Why were so may people upset at the time is what I was commenting on. None of the confederacy angles came up when the house was demolished. As far as I know. Check the social media time machine.

No - it was brought up and some people still didn't want it torn down (some reassessed their view and turned their donkey on it). People who still wanted it to stay up were showing their true colors as Confederate apologists, racists, and generally idiots. These people were handed an inflection point and doubled-down.

My only point is people were used to seeing it as they drove Riverside. PERIOD.

Yep - I got that. But landmark is a term that gets thrown around a lot. Frankly nothing really changed on Riverside for a long time so that house was as much of a landmark as the land it was on as was the pedestrian bridge as was that old little western town that was a kids playground on the west side of the river and on and on and on. I sure didn't see that little hoard of people show up to protest the pedestrian bridge being torn down but correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think the vast majority had any idea what it might have stood for.  Did you hear any talk of that when it was torn down?   The a**hole you speak of built the house 50 or 60 years ago, I think.  The social justice perspective was not as strong as it is now... it wasn't 6-7 years ago either.  Glad you're venting --- sort of answering a question no one asked.  At the risk of making this Twitter, I'm done. 

They'd have to be living in a cave if they didn't know as it was mentioned in the Tulsa World, Batesline (though only in the comments because Batesline), and other news sources. I think most people, like me, thought there was something historic about it because it had always been there but once I heard modeled after Jefferson Davis' wrinkle ranch well screw that place. The people who still wanted it left up (and are still pining about it) are the same ones who claim statues of Confederates are in some way historical. Was it a shrine to Davis and the Confederacy - probably not intentionally but it was a shrine to the Antebellum South. It was romanticizing how wonderful the South was, slavery and all, before those horrible Yankees ruined everything. Why they still call it "the War on Northern Aggression" in parts of the South. Why for over 100 years after Lincoln was assassinated many Southern homes had pictures of John Wilkes Booth up (and he's still considered a Southern hero in many places). So yes people who initially defended that house can get a pass for ignorance (I'm in that boat) but once they knew and kept on welp you might wanna check their closets for little white robes and pointy hats. The Civil War didn't end in 1865.


And I blame the venting on a lack of coffee... 

[tulsabug]

Forsyth knew what he was doing.  How can we permit anything else he designed to stand.  Tear it all down - just to be safe... and correct.     Thanks for posting these photos.  Did Forsyth also have a hand in Will Rogers High School?    

Lol! In my defense I never said anything about Forsyth - he was hired to design something based on the client's wishes full stop and frankly kinda phoned it in - he really doesn't even need to be mentioned in relation to that house since it looks like he worked on it for about 30 minutes. Blair seemed decent enough, or at least as far as philanthropy goes. Still wonder why of all the houses in the South that you could model your dream house after - why that really pedestrian one? Why not the main house from the Evergreen Plantation? From a strictly architectural perspective it's a much better looking pile of bricks. The Blair Mansion was an incredibly forgettable building.

I don't know if Forsyth had anything to do with Will Rogers HS - I think that was mainly Koberling and Senter.

[Red Arrow]

Was it a shrine to Davis and the Confederacy - probably not intentionally but it was a shrine to the Antebellum South.

I understand tearing down specific "copies" of houses but what's next, tear down every example of the Antebellum South?  Art Deco because it was built by rich people?

[dbacksfan 2.0]

No - it was brought up and some people still didn't want it torn down (some reassessed their view and turned their donkey on it). People who still wanted it to stay up were showing their true colors as Confederate apologists, racists, and generally idiots. These people were handed an inflection point and doubled-down.Yep - I got that. But landmark is a term that gets thrown around a lot. Frankly nothing really changed on Riverside for a long time so that house was as much of a landmark as the land it was on as was the pedestrian bridge as was that old little western town that was a kids playground on the west side of the river and on and on and on. I sure didn't see that little hoard of people show up to protest the pedestrian bridge being torn down but correct me if I'm wrong.They'd have to be living in a cave if they didn't know as it was mentioned in the Tulsa World, Batesline (though only in the comments because Batesline), and other news sources. I think most people, like me, thought there was something historic about it because it had always been there but once I heard modeled after Jefferson Davis' wrinkle ranch well screw that place. The people who still wanted it left up (and are still pining about it) are the same ones who claim statues of Confederates are in some way historical. Was it a shrine to Davis and the Confederacy - probably not intentionally but it was a shrine to the Antebellum South. It was romanticizing how wonderful the South was, slavery and all, before those horrible Yankees ruined everything. Why they still call it "the War on Northern Aggression" in parts of the South. Why for over 100 years after Lincoln was assassinated many Southern homes had pictures of John Wilkes Booth up (and he's still considered a Southern hero in many places). So yes people who initially defended that house can get a pass for ignorance (I'm in that boat) but once they knew and kept on welp you might wanna check their closets for little white robes and pointy hats. The Civil War didn't end in 1865.


And I blame the venting on a lack of coffee... 

[TulsaBeMore]

No - it was brought up and some people still didn't want it torn down (some reassessed their view and turned their donkey on it). People who still wanted it to stay up were showing their true colors as Confederate apologists, racists, and generally idiots. These people were handed an inflection point and doubled-down.Yep - I got that. But landmark is a term that gets thrown around a lot. Frankly nothing really changed on Riverside for a long time so that house was as much of a landmark as the land it was on as was the pedestrian bridge as was that old little western town that was a kids playground on the west side of the river and on and on and on. I sure didn't see that little hoard of people show up to protest the pedestrian bridge being torn down but correct me if I'm wrong.They'd have to be living in a cave if they didn't know as it was mentioned in the Tulsa World, Batesline (though only in the comments because Batesline), and other news sources. I think most people, like me, thought there was something historic about it because it had always been there but once I heard modeled after Jefferson Davis' wrinkle ranch well screw that place. The people who still wanted it left up (and are still pining about it) are the same ones who claim statues of Confederates are in some way historical. Was it a shrine to Davis and the Confederacy - probably not intentionally but it was a shrine to the Antebellum South. It was romanticizing how wonderful the South was, slavery and all, before those horrible Yankees ruined everything. Why they still call it "the War on Northern Aggression" in parts of the South. Why for over 100 years after Lincoln was assassinated many Southern homes had pictures of John Wilkes Booth up (and he's still considered a Southern hero in many places). So yes people who initially defended that house can get a pass for ignorance (I'm in that boat) but once they knew and kept on welp you might wanna check their closets for little white robes and pointy hats. The Civil War didn't end in 1865.  


And I blame the venting on a lack of coffee...  

Mmm.  I was in the local news media at the time.  In fact, 35 years.  I was in editorial meetings twice a day when the Blair mansion was torn down.  I recall a lot of mystery around it.  There was not any meaningful, continual chatter or reporting about social justice issues and the house --- not in the media in or around the demolition.  There just wasn't anything of significance that I recall. Please, show me different.  In addition, it was never given as even a tertiary reason by the Kaiser foundation for tearing it down. Have you ever heard/seen the Kaiser folks talk about the mansion's confederacy link?  The media and the public were told they did all they could to move the house for the man they bought it from, but they just could not and had to tear it down.  They tried to tear it down as quietly and out of public view as possible.   I don't care about the house --- not then. Not now.  However, I reject your conclusions as fact as far as divining what others thought or think --- their motives or who they are.  You have an opinion, that's it.  Your assessment is your projection.  I am not aware of anybody pining about it being torn down.  Keep fighting the Civil War... like it's 1866.  

[TulsaBeMore]

I understand tearing down specific "copies" of houses but what's next, tear down every example of the Antebellum South?  Art Deco because it was built by rich people?

I think now we should go after Crest and Colgate instead of going over this old settled ground.  What kind of bigot racists push whitening toothpaste?  What's wrong with natural or yellow teeth?  They must be stopped.  It's gone on too long.    

[TulsaBeMore]

Lol! In my defense I never said anything about Forsyth - he was hired to design something based on the client's wishes full stop and frankly kinda phoned it in - he really doesn't even need to be mentioned in relation to that house since it looks like he worked on it for about 30 minutes. Blair seemed decent enough, or at least as far as philanthropy goes. Still wonder why of all the houses in the South that you could model your dream house after - why that really pedestrian one? Why not the main house from the Evergreen Plantation? From a strictly architectural perspective it's a much better looking pile of bricks. The Blair Mansion was an incredibly forgettable building.

I don't know if Forsyth had anything to do with Will Rogers HS - I think that was mainly Koberling and Senter.

Yes, Koberling.  I was mixing them up somehow.  Koberling is one of my favorite Tulsa architects.  I worked in his KVOO building on Peoria for years.

Of course I was joking about Forsyth.  But the exercise of taking this as far as it could go would potentially see him implicated and canceled for just taking the job.  As far as the house goes?  Just a thought --- what if Blair had family in Biloxi or spent time there - vacations.  Maybe he just liked the way the house looked. It sits right on the beach front highway, right? I could have that wrong.   It could be harmless reasons or nefarious, I suppose.