Tesla's Big F***ing Field

[Oil Capital]

https://electrek.co/2021/03/30/tesla-semi-production-line-new-nevada-building-electric-trucks-per-week/

Also in the article:  "Of course, the goal is for much higher production once the program moves to Gigafactory Austin and Tesla can reach high volume production of 4680 battery cells."

Hmmmm....

[tulsabug]

Tesla needs to focus on either building cars and trucks, building semis, or building batteries. They're too small of a company to be fighting on so many fronts but that's Musk's hubris for ya. Once the money from carbon credits dries up over the next two years (where they make their money), they're going to have to rely on their vehicles to make money (which they never have).

[heironymouspasparagus]

There is so much wringing of hands in this state and lengthy discussions on this board about why Oklahoma just can't seem to compete to get the "big score" of companies to come here.  And in every case, there are a long list of factors that enter into that discussion.  All of which are dismissed, ignored, and in general swept under the rug so we don't have to actually deal with stuff.

And just a few days ago, the pathetic Oklahoma legislature passed and Stitt signed a bill that IS our latest National Embarrassment.

They made it ILLEGAL to teach the truth in any public school from K-12 to University level.  Under penalty of civil lawsuit as well as criminal action.

Good job, Oklahoma!  Racing to the bottom at breakneck speed every single time!


Gee, I wonder why we aren't taken seriously....?

[SXSW]

Remember the Tesla site was located at 412 and the Creek Turnpike.  It just was announced OK and AR want to designate US 412 as a future interstate connecting I-35 to I-49 through Tulsa.  Would this be I-50?  I still wish we could get US 75 upgraded to I-45 to Dallas all the way to Galveston.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/inhofe-arkansas-senators-push-to-get-interstate-designation-for-stretch-of-u-s-412/article_b9bf9be2-ba65-11eb-8c81-e3c69146bc72.html

[Red Arrow]

Remember the Tesla site was located at 412 and the Creek Turnpike.  It just was announced OK and AR want to designate US 412 as a future interstate connecting I-35 to I-49 through Tulsa.  Would this be I-50?  I still wish we could get US 75 upgraded to I-45 to Dallas all the way to Galveston.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/inhofe-arkansas-senators-push-to-get-interstate-designation-for-stretch-of-u-s-412/article_b9bf9be2-ba65-11eb-8c81-e3c69146bc72.html

I guess that would complete the conversion of 412 to a toll road from I-35 to I-49.

Why I-50 would be available:
https://i50.blogspot.com/2005/12/why-there-is-no-interstate-50.html

[Hoss]

Remember the Tesla site was located at 412 and the Creek Turnpike.  It just was announced OK and AR want to designate US 412 as a future interstate connecting I-35 to I-49 through Tulsa.  Would this be I-50?  I still wish we could get US 75 upgraded to I-45 to Dallas all the way to Galveston.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/inhofe-arkansas-senators-push-to-get-interstate-designation-for-stretch-of-u-s-412/article_b9bf9be2-ba65-11eb-8c81-e3c69146bc72.html

The biggest upgrade needed will be the stretch from West Siloam to Springdale.  All of that as it is currently is at-grade with multiple intersections.  The non-toll sections west of the Turnpike start are not so difficult to upgrade as most of that road is currently four lane but there will need to be changes to the access control for sure.  That stretch starting in Siloam east to Springdale can be hellish during standard rush hours.

[SXSW]

The biggest upgrade needed will be the stretch from West Siloam to Springdale.  All of that as it is currently is at-grade with multiple intersections.  The non-toll sections west of the Turnpike start are not so difficult to upgrade as most of that road is currently four lane but there will need to be changes to the access control for sure.  That stretch starting in Siloam east to Springdale can be hellish during standard rush hours.

Yep Arkansas will have the most challenging and expensive portion which is probably why they want to upgrade to an interstate so the Feds can help pay for it.  Having a fully limited access interstate from Tulsa to I-49 would easily shave off 15-20 min. from trips to Springdale and Fayetteville.  

[LandArchPoke]

Yep Arkansas will have the most challenging and expensive portion which is probably why they want to upgrade to an interstate so the Feds can help pay for it.  Having a fully limited access interstate from Tulsa to I-49 would easily shave off 15-20 min. from trips to Springdale and Fayetteville.  

I believe there's been a corridor in Arkansas that was planned as an interstate for a while now that would go from the Memphis area through Jonesboro to NWA so it seems to make sense that it would continue along 412. I believe the funding has been hard to come by to complete the section from Jonesboro to NWA given the terrain, the portion that's been done is I-555. Arkansas is struggling just to finish the souther portion of I-49 south of Ft Smith for the same reason, it's expensive with that terrain.

If we invest money into a new interstate along this corridor my only wish is that they allocate right of way to rail and make it multimodal - having commuter/regional rail running along the right of way of a new interstate would make the investment more reasonable. For most of the right of way the rail could go faster than cars too on flat and uncurved sections so you could likely have a train capable of 100+ mph on many portions, if you could get it to average about 90-100 mph you'd have a 60 min trip between DT Tulsa and Springdale via rail.

Do the same going west and connect Tulsa to Stillwater via 412/the new interstate corridor and from there you aren't far from the Amtrak corridor between OKC and Wichita and all of a sudden we'd have rail connections to NWA, OKC and Wichita plus Stillwater which could be important to growing OSU more in Tulsa and Stillwater if you could get back and forth in 45 to 60 mins via rail. Football games, basketball, etc. I bet you'd be able to sell a lot of tickets out of Tulsa for that connection if it was fast enough and enough frequency. Given the terrain is a lot flatter going west with the right of way along 412 you could probably get an average speed over 100mph and easily get a 45 min travel time between DT Tulsa and Stillwater. A connector to the Amtrak corridor west from Stillwater would be about 20 miles (could just extend the Turnpike spur to I-35 too and make that multimodal as well) and from Stillwater to DT OKC would be 70-ish mile route (maybe another 45 min trip if the rail lines were upgraded all the way into OKC too). That'd be around 140 miles from DT Tulsa to DT OKC via Stillwater versus the I-44 corridor which would be about 100 miles. Wouldn't add that much time to the trip and frankly would probably be a much more valuable rail corridor that way then along the Turner Turnpike which doesn't have as much right of way as 412 and is likely to never get federal funding for any type of rail. Frankly the Turnpike Authority has worked hard to keep rail from that corridor given the Turner is their cash cow that supports the rest of the system and they'd rather 6 lane it all the way between the two cities than ever see rail along that route too.   

[patric]

I guess that would complete the conversion of 412 to a toll road from I-35 to I-49.

Why I-50 would be available:
https://i50.blogspot.com/2005/12/why-there-is-no-interstate-50.html

May be a 'sign' of things to come:
https://iowahighwayends.net/blog/2015/04/i-41-official-in-wisconsin/

I always loved this route because they had tunnels where we had fly-overs and elevated roads (which might be an idea to fix 244's bisection of Greenwood).

[swake]

I believe there's been a corridor in Arkansas that was planned as an interstate for a while now that would go from the Memphis area through Jonesboro to NWA so it seems to make sense that it would continue along 412. I believe the funding has been hard to come by to complete the section from Jonesboro to NWA given the terrain, the portion that's been done is I-555. Arkansas is struggling just to finish the souther portion of I-49 south of Ft Smith for the same reason, it's expensive with that terrain.

If we invest money into a new interstate along this corridor my only wish is that they allocate right of way to rail and make it multimodal - having commuter/regional rail running along the right of way of a new interstate would make the investment more reasonable. For most of the right of way the rail could go faster than cars too on flat and uncurved sections so you could likely have a train capable of 100+ mph on many portions, if you could get it to average about 90-100 mph you'd have a 60 min trip between DT Tulsa and Springdale via rail.

Do the same going west and connect Tulsa to Stillwater via 412/the new interstate corridor and from there you aren't far from the Amtrak corridor between OKC and Wichita and all of a sudden we'd have rail connections to NWA, OKC and Wichita plus Stillwater which could be important to growing OSU more in Tulsa and Stillwater if you could get back and forth in 45 to 60 mins via rail. Football games, basketball, etc. I bet you'd be able to sell a lot of tickets out of Tulsa for that connection if it was fast enough and enough frequency. Given the terrain is a lot flatter going west with the right of way along 412 you could probably get an average speed over 100mph and easily get a 45 min travel time between DT Tulsa and Stillwater. A connector to the Amtrak corridor west from Stillwater would be about 20 miles (could just extend the Turnpike spur to I-35 too and make that multimodal as well) and from Stillwater to DT OKC would be 70-ish mile route (maybe another 45 min trip if the rail lines were upgraded all the way into OKC too). That'd be around 140 miles from DT Tulsa to DT OKC via Stillwater versus the I-44 corridor which would be about 100 miles. Wouldn't add that much time to the trip and frankly would probably be a much more valuable rail corridor that way then along the Turner Turnpike which doesn't have as much right of way as 412 and is likely to never get federal funding for any type of rail. Frankly the Turnpike Authority has worked hard to keep rail from that corridor given the Turner is their cash cow that supports the rest of the system and they'd rather 6 lane it all the way between the two cities than ever see rail along that route too.  

I wouldn't think that any new highway construction would be needed west of Tulsa. East of Tulsa my guess would be the state would only add some bridges and a few exits to convert the existing divided highway to limited access. The only new road and right of way Oklahoma would need to build would be a bypass around West Siloam Springs. Arkansas needs are much higher.

[LandArchPoke]

I wouldn't think that any new highway construction would be needed west of Tulsa. East of Tulsa my guess would be the state would only add some bridges and a few exits to convert the existing divided highway to limited access. The only new road and right of way Oklahoma would need to build would be a bypass around West Siloam Springs. Arkansas needs are much higher.

There'd still have to be some significant upgrades made from the far west side of Sand Spring all the way to where the turnpike begins near Cleveland. Most of that stretch does not meet interstate standards. The full part of the turnpike you wouldn't have to do much to but that part had a pretty significant amount of right away already that could likely facilitate a rail line along it.

You'd also have to upgrade a lot of 412 from the Will Rogers interchange out to where Mid America is, that area doesn't meet interstate standards either. Arkansas you'd have to upgrade the full portion from the state line all the way into Springdale. Given the amount of miles you'd have to upgrade between Tulsa and NWA it would make sense to build it where it could become multimodal. Same with the portions we had to upgrade to the west.

___

Just a thought too, if this ever did happen - I'd far prefer the Gilcrease loop be upgraded to an interstate and then decommission I-244 through downtown. It would add maybe 3-5 minutes to someone's drive going from NWA to say Stillwater to loop around on the Gilcrease instead of driving straight through downtown. Routing regional traffic away from downtown you could then tear down I-244/412 from Kendall Whittier to Gilcrease Museum Road and turn it into an at-grade boulevard instead. Then redevelop all the right of way that ODOT owns along that corridor. It'd be a win for the turnpike authority too, it'd route a lot more regional traffic along that portion of highway too.

[Hoss]

What I did wind up reading in the Arkansas Post-Gazette is that there is plans for a Springdale "north Hwy 412 bypass" that will be built to interstate specifications.  I believe it is partially completed now as AR state hwy 612.

[SXSW]

Just a thought too, if this ever did happen - I'd far prefer the Gilcrease loop be upgraded to an interstate and then decommission I-244 through downtown. It would add maybe 3-5 minutes to someone's drive going from NWA to say Stillwater to loop around on the Gilcrease instead of driving straight through downtown. Routing regional traffic away from downtown you could then tear down I-244/412 from Kendall Whittier to Gilcrease Museum Road and turn it into an at-grade boulevard instead. Then redevelop all the right of way that ODOT owns along that corridor. It'd be a win for the turnpike authority too, it'd route a lot more regional traffic along that portion of highway too.

Best idea I've heard it would be amazing to have 244 as an at-grade boulevard.  Tear down the east leg of the IDL while you're at it extending Madison Ave. north of 15th to 1st Street.

[patric]

Best idea I've heard it would be amazing to have 244 as an at-grade boulevard.  Tear down the east leg of the IDL while you're at it extending Madison Ave. north of 15th to 1st Street.

Or maybe do a "Big Dig" -style underground tunnel for 244, and re-develop the land above.
There has already been discussion of doing something similar to other parts of the IDL.
Hopefully we could learn from Boston's mistakes (and there are quite a few).

[Tulsan]

Or maybe do a "Big Dig" -style underground tunnel for 244, and re-develop the land above.
There has already been discussion of doing something similar to other parts of the IDL.
Hopefully we could learn from Boston's mistakes (and there are quite a few).

This is what the Chamber has talked about from a reconciliation standpoint.   You'd drop 244 below grade south of Archer and come back up between Boulder/Denver, with a series of decks capping the resulting canyon. There's potential money in Biden's proposed infrastructure project. No engineering has been done. So it's pie in the sky... but never say never.