Tesla's Big F***ing Field

[LandArchPoke]

This is what the Chamber has talked about from a reconciliation standpoint.   You'd drop 244 below grade south of Archer and come back up between Boulder/Denver, with a series of decks capping the resulting canyon. There's potential money in Biden's proposed infrastructure project. No engineering has been done. So it's pie in the sky... but never say never.  

Only problem with that is the cost to do that would be astronomical.

A more cost effective option would be to designate the Gilcrease loop as 244 or whatever the new interstate would be between NWA & Tulsa and finish it off as a turnpike all the way from 412 to the Tisdale. Then just turn the former 244/412 corridor from Kendall Whitter through downtown into an at grade boulevard. The traffic that comes through 244 doesn't warrant us having a redundant corridor to the north.

Taking 244 straight through downtown from where the Gilcrease starts now near the airport to the planned interchange in west Tulsa is about 10 miles. Taking the loop if it was finished north from near the airport to hook back into 412 would be about 13.5 miles. You'd only add 3.5 miles to someone's drive which at 65 MPH is not much time. Klyde Warren Park in Dallas is about 0.20 miles in length and cost $110 million - so you're talking $500 million a mile at least to do a tunnel and cap concept (probably way more given how much construction costs have gone up since that was completed). Say you started the tunnel at around Peoria and took it to Denver, that's about 1.4 miles and would cost $750 million at least. Keep in mind too, that was just for the cap portion, the highway was already below grade, so you'd like increase cost twice as much to go from above grade to rebuilding the entire road below grade and adding the cap so you're talking upwards of $1 billion for less than 2 miles.

Versus completing the loop and decommissioning the highway through downtown, which would be closer to $125-150 million based on the cost to do a similar project in Rochester NY recently if you did the same thing between Kendall Whitter and Gilcrease Museum Road which would be 3.5 ish miles - you'd have a far greater impact to the city if you were able to do it to that scale versus just 1-1.5 miles through downtown. Funneling regional traffic onto the Gilcrease would likely give the Turnpike Authority reason to finish the loop to interstate standards all the way too.

Either option would be much better than what we have now, I'm just pessimistic that we'd ever be able to get a billion or more from the Feds to do a cap and tunnel option - the other option is in the realm of reasonable cost wise. The political reality of it happening is another question.  

[SXSW]

I'd rather see the at-grade boulevard replace 244.  If we're doing a cut and cap I'd rather see that done to the BA between Yale and Peoria.

[patric]

I'd rather see the at-grade boulevard replace 244.  If we're doing a cut and cap I'd rather see that done to the BA between Yale and Peoria.

When it comes to Greenwood's future, some here think I-244 — which runs east-west and sits on top of what were once famous cultural hubs, like the Dreamland Theater — should be lowered to a thoroughfare. Others think it should be buried in a tunnel so that the property on top provides new real estate. Many also want to see U.S. 75, which sliced off most of the eastern edge and northern stretch of Greenwood, removed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tulsa-s-greenwood-neighborhood-found-prosperity-after-1921-massacre-then-n1268455

[heironymouspasparagus]

Other news, Mazzio's offers up 7,000 + free pizzas - 1 to every employee at Tesla in Tulsa.

Not sure why anyone would want to eat Mazzio's, but maybe if all new people to the area, they may not be familiar enough to know about them.

As if bad food, dirty restaurants, and massively too high prices weren't already enough - the managers husband at one of the mid town's was overheard in a conversation referring to an employee as an "f'ing slave'.   Smooth move bad management!

[Red Arrow]

Not sure why anyone would want to eat Mazzio's, but maybe if all new people to the area, they may not be familiar enough to know about them.
As if bad food, dirty restaurants, and massively too high prices weren't already enough - the managers husband at one of the mid town's was overheard in a conversation referring to an employee as an "f'ing slave'.   Smooth move bad management!

Pizza is off my diet.  I like it, but it doesn't like me. :-(

[patric]

As midcentury highways reach the end of their life spans, cities across the country are having to choose whether to rebuild or reconsider them. Instead of moving people in and out of downtown as quickly as possible, (cities are) trying to make downtown a more livable place.

The highway removal and other deconstruction projects are part of a long-term plan for a city still struggling to come back from years of economic and population decline. The big bet: Rebuilding more walkable, bikeable and connected neighborhoods will attract new investment and new residents. And city officials hope it might even reduce car-dependence in the long run.


Can Removing Highways Fix America's Cities?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/27/climate/us-cities-highway-removal.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

Pizza is off my diet.  I like it, but it doesn't like me. :-(

We love it!   But there just isn't any fit to eat here.  Have not tried Andolini's in BA, but Owasso was Mazzios with even higher prices.  And Cherry street was bad or at least having a bad day the one time we went there.

We have been making our own and it's getting there!   And we don't put whatever it is that really hammers the stomach!  Very friendly pizza!   Wish I knew what it was so could complain to all of them about it....

[Red Arrow]

We love it!   But there just isn't any fit to eat here.  Have not tried Andolini's in BA, but Owasso was Mazzios with even higher prices.  And Cherry street was bad or at least having a bad day the one time we went there.
We have been making our own and it's getting there!   And we don't put whatever it is that really hammers the stomach!  Very friendly pizza!   Wish I knew what it was so could complain to all of them about it....

Around about 2014, my LDL was 174 and I had frequent problems with heartburn and reflux.  My blood pressure was getting close to bad limits for my pilot's (FAA) physical and I was taking Lisinopril to keep my blood pressure within FAA limits.  I was taking Zantac (actually generic) several times a week.  THEN, I changed my diet to considerably reduce saturated fat and salt.  Within a year, my LDL was under 100 and my blood pressure dropped to a level that I could stop taking blood pressure medicine.  I was also not having heartburn and reflux problems.  I did not change my exercise habit which included a lunch time walk for about 2.4 miles within about 38 minutes in the summer, a bit faster when the weather was cooler.

Unfortunately, I like pizza with lots of cheese, sausage, pepperoni etc.  Also don't need the carbs of the rest of it.

'nuff said.

[Red Arrow]

We love it!   But there just isn't any fit to eat here.  Have not tried Andolini's in BA, but Owasso was Mazzios with even higher prices.  And Cherry street was bad or at least having a bad day the one time we went there.
We have been making our own and it's getting there!   And we don't put whatever it is that really hammers the stomach!  Very friendly pizza!   Wish I knew what it was so could complain to all of them about it....

One more thing... a friend suggested making my own with cauliflower based pizza crust.  Unfortunately, way too much sodium.  :-(
Ya gotta be careful about so-called healthy alternatives.  If you're not sodium sensitive, go for it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

One more thing... a friend suggested making my own with cauliflower based pizza crust.  Unfortunately, way too much sodium.  :-(
Ya gotta be careful about so-called healthy alternatives.  If you're not sodium sensitive, go for it.

I am getting ready to plant some early wheat varieties on a scale for home use.  Emmer and Einkorn.  Both are very different from stuff we have available today in the stores.  I absolutely believe a lot of our health problems come from the change to HFCS and the new wheat that started being put into food in the 70's.  Am very skeptical about aluminum - like in anti-perspirants, but since I don't use that type anyway, don't worry about it.

Now I just need a good grain cradle for the scythe....!

[Red Arrow]

I am getting ready to plant some early wheat varieties on a scale for home use.  Emmer and Einkorn.  Both are very different from stuff we have available today in the stores.  I absolutely believe a lot of our health problems come from the change to HFCS and the new wheat that started being put into food in the 70's.  Am very skeptical about aluminum - like in anti-perspirants, but since I don't use that type anyway, don't worry about it.
Now I just need a good grain cradle for the scythe....!

How much area do you intend to plant?

My two plots of 10' X 15' plus numerous containers, mostly chile peppers but also eggplant and okra, are all I want to take care of.

[heironymouspasparagus]

How much area do you intend to plant?

My two plots of 10' X 15' plus numerous containers, mostly chile peppers but also eggplant and okra, are all I want to take care of.

For the wheat?  Maybe 1/4 acre to start total.  Just enough to get much more seed and maybe some flour for bread experimentation.  Have a few family/friends with gluten sensitivity, so going to see if that will help some.  Will keep the two varieties apart in two plots.

For flowers, about 3/4 acre, +/-,  and home veggy garden, about 1/4 acre.  Also putting in about 1/2 acre orchard/vineyard...about half done.  Mostly corn, tomatoes, peppers, okra, and various beans.  Canning and preserving is becoming very big topic around the house.

[Red Arrow]

For the wheat?  Maybe 1/4 acre to start total.  Just enough to get much more seed and maybe some flour for bread experimentation.  Have a few family/friends with gluten sensitivity, so going to see if that will help some.  Will keep the two varieties apart in two plots.
For flowers, about 3/4 acre, +/-,  and home veggy garden, about 1/4 acre.  Also putting in about 1/2 acre orchard/vineyard...about half done.  Mostly corn, tomatoes, peppers, okra, and various beans.  Canning and preserving is becoming very big topic around the house.

You are much more ambitious than I am.  I wish I could grow some tomatoes but the squirrels get them all, destroying the plants in the process.  :-(

I may need to fill some spots with some beans as some of my peppers and eggplants are having problems waiting to be put in the ground.

I roto-tilled the spots a few weeks ago but it's been too wet to do anything and the weeds are already taking over.  I need to pull weeds or re-roto-till.

[Tulsan]

You guys know there's a private message function on this thing?

[Red Arrow]

You guys know there's a private message function on this thing?

Sorry for the thread drift.